Alarmism: An Open Letter
Dear Dan, I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I have to say that I have been a little disconcerted by aB.com’s rather strident alarmism over the past few days. Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion, which I respect, but I would ask you to consider this possibility. Their public statements notwithstanding, the reds have no real interest in engaging in large-scale violence and property destruction. What they are trying to do is to: 1) Show that Abhisit cannot govern; and 2) Perhaps bait the government into cracking down violently. At the very worst, that is, they are trying to find a way to portray themselves as the victims of violence, as opposed to engaging in violence themselves. You might argue that this is a very cynical strategy and I would definitely agree with that. Alas, that’s how the game is played in Thailand.
However, I hope you would entertain the possibility that the only party that is actually interested in the reds turning violent is the government – in large part because that will delegitimize the red shirts and provide the excuse to repress them. As such, I think it’s at best naive and at worst disingenuous to blame the red shirts alone for the climate of fear that envelops Bangkok. We have The Nation for that, anyway. A particularly good example of this is the fact that the government now appears to be ready to impose a state of emergency, which in essence suspends all civil liberties, in the face of what so far has been an entirely peaceful demonstration (with the exception of a one-on-one scuffle in Pathum Thani).
Do they have any reasons for doing so, other than to scare the public to death? After all, the behavior of the red shirts so far has not really squared with the government’s propaganda, so that’s apparently all they have left aside from instigating some violence themselves (that itself is, in my view, forthcoming). Given the track record of military governments and military-backed governments in Thailand, are you sure you want to give them this much benefit of the doubt? Much like the reds, these people are also playing a very cynical game.
As you know, much like you I have deep misgivings about the reds and, especially, Thaksin. But I am also wondering whether you may have been a little too quick to blame them for creating a situation that the government is at the very least co-responsible for. I am only saying this because I respect your work and, perhaps more importantly, because blogs like yours have been, over the past few years, the place where one can find honest coverage of the events considering the sad state of the Thai media. And, unless you are trying to prove to someone that you pose no danger “to the security of the kingdom,” there is hardly any benefit in parroting The Nation’s intellectually dishonest coverage. That, by the way, includes that propagandist and rumor-monger that is Tulsie, to whom you have apparently turned over a portion of your site.
Again, I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, in the sense that I didn’t write this to attack you or criticize you, but only to invite you to consider alternatives to the viewpoint you have put forth. All the best,
Federico Ferrara, Assistant Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Singapore.
Hi Dan,
I just read the letter from Federico.
It’s good you published it.
Although I respect his writings and thoughts enormously, I feel he is a bit blind at times – like most of us – particularly to the “what might happen” scenarios.
He’s not alone in the academic world, from what I read, either.
New Mandala and its contributors appear to be even “more blind.” And sites such as Prachatai and ThaiCrisis are always “agin the guv’ment” no matter what.
AB.com adds a different non-academic, but well thought through dimension to the debate – a bit of a rarity amongst the more “serious” blogs.
In a “democratic” society voices, such as aired on your site, are as legitimate as any – and you don’t have to wade through the crap like on ThaiVisa or TeakDoor.
Keep telling like you see it!
Cheers
D.
Thanks for publishing this, and FWIW, I agree with Federico.
Dan, since your site blocking incident, I have noticed a definite change in tone from you – understandable maybe, but still disappointing IMO.
I kind second what Hobby said about the blocking incident …
Thanks for your letter Federico, we had other conversations on this, but here in short:
And also Hobby: The tactic of a demonstration now is just plain unefficient (if nonviolent) and the rhetoric too yellow. Whereas that recent blocking of aB.com has not the slightest influence on my writing. Being not only pro-red doesn’t mean pro-govt. But everyone knows the government doesn’t give in to threats only. The strategy’s too predictable. Or there’s a credibility gap. Does escalation ring a bell? So yellow again. And the low turnout. Low it is. The number doesn’t suggest representative politics. Ah, Gandhi, passive action, there we go …
The recent press conference at the FCCT was the real shocker so to say. What Khun Jaran said. Talking of “civil war” with an ease as if it’s some shopping spree. That’s irresponsible to say the least and doesn’t get my vote.
People speak too casually about conflict and war. Maybe a consequence of the Iraqi syndrome of a public clean war. No blood and real pain in the reporting, with some luck you get a hint of reality and see a dead body or coffin. War seems to be a thing of Hollywood and video games, controllable. All we red supporters here are “remote warriors.” But once the virtual reality becomes really real most of us would wish to go back to the most basic of lives, let there only be peace.
I did not live and fight in the jungle, but in the line of my work I’ve seen enough shot and blown up and burnt and torn apart bodies that maybe by now I’m just a coward, who knows.
Or it’s all just cunning talk as you say. Or rather: They have no real strategy. Yet. Their main strength? The benefit of doubt.
Or as a “red accademic” told me, they’re “less worse”:
Whatever. The protest now shows it’s mainly about Thaksin. But if you want to rule the capital you have to convince.
Don’t be a carbon copy of the yellows.
Being neglected and disenfranchised as the reds’ great big strengths? They can’t sell themselves that cheap, can they.
A 100,000 show up. Doesn’t this tell you something. Where are the other 67+ million. Not impressive. We were promised at least half a million. The day’s still young, but this show of failure is not what Thailand needs at the moment, and I’m not ignoring disenfranchisement and injustices.
Creating some sort of force or violence is the only way to move anything with these numbers in this climate. Otherwise the rally ends with nothing else than a huge carbon footprint and even deeper divisions.
That’s my line all along: their strategy is to not initiate, but provoke violence. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Not less guilty.
Alarmism? Well, aB.com is still one of the probably more balanced blogs around here, but no party’s or color’s mouthpiece. The News Feed and Blogroll give you all the perspectives.
Timing and tactics of the red rally are just not right.
Tulsathit a rumor-monger?
He’s one of the more balanced voices in the Thai English-language media world. Even BangkokPundit quotes him without a hint of sarcasm. And don’t forget, The Nation also publishes Chang Noi.
The current blogosphere around here takes this unison approach of condemning everything anti-red.
That’s what I did mostly as well.
If it would be that easy.
A protest, like this, is doomed to strengthen the government.
I’m the first to shave my head in shame if this rally leads to a positive outcome.
Forced elections? In the long run the elite’s not safe, we all know that.
BangkokDan
I understand, and share, many of your concerns – the thing that has most irked me reading your latest stuff has been an apparent lack of sympathy for why they are protesting. I accept for many it’s still all about Thaksin, but you know the issues here go much deeper than that, and they started way before Thaksin.
About the timing – I think the Thaksin verdict was what stalled a large protest that was (IMO) long overdue – everyone had been waiting for that verdict, and once it was given, the way has been cleared for the protest/holiday season.
Do you recall all Abhisit’s talk of reconcilation?
Have you seen anything in his actions, since coming to power, that is a genuine attempt at reconcilation?
These protests would be completely unnecessary if Abhisit recognized he lacks legitimacy because of the events leading up to his attaining the position – don’t you think he should just call new elections, and ask every one to accept the results?
If certain groups don’t like the results, shouldn’t they simply campaign to try to convince the voters to change at the next election?
Agree about Tulsie being more balanced than others, but he’s still a rumor-monger (especially when it comes to Thaksin), and he’s long way off Pravit when it comes to balance.
If The Nation got rid off Pravit & Chang Noi, it might as well change its name to The Manager English!
Regarding “alarmism” – I think we all are a little guilty of ramping up expectations, including the reds with their million-man claims & resoving to bring down Abhisit this week.
They can simply walk away tomorrow, safe in the knowledge that Abhisit is still too scared to go to the people – neither side is victorious in that scenario, and to claim otherwise would be spinning for one side or the other.
I’m happy to condemn all colors (when justified).
I think the idea of blogs is to give diverse perspectives that the MSN don’t touch on, and here in Thailand that includes quite a bit. All bloggers will invariably allow their opinions to show as blogs really are just opinion pieces. Time will be the only real decider of who is right.
I like Khi Kwai’s writings and find them very insightful, but really they belong on his blog or in the comments section.
Hobby, you and I have debated the issues you bring up here, on your blog. Although we generally agree on what we would like to see as outcomes, we do differ in how we believe Thailand could get there.
After my week up country and in the “care” of some real “salt of the earth” red suporters, I believe even more that there are so many issues which need addressing, it will solve nothing and most likely add to the gravity of the situation, if Abhisit just gives in and says to the likes of Jatuporn, Jarawan, Arisman, etc. (please note, I said nothing about the BIG kahuna – now eating Swiss chockies 555), “Okay guys, we’re fakes and crooks who stole the government. So, after 15 to 16 months and under pressure from your outstanding rally here in Bangkok, we give up” – which is in effect what you are asking for.
As for Dan and this blog – I’m the “D.” who wrote that to him, as a private email. He asked if he could post it. As I think he has been unfairly criticized because (like me) he has opinions which are not the “accepted norm” amongst the English language, blog chattering classes, I agreed.
After all, if the Thai reds are supposed to be fighting for a more equal and “democractic” society, I don’t see why “guests” and others who communicate in the English language should be left out of this proposed “new society” – get my drift?
Dan, if you want to repeat elitist government propaganda, get your own blog. Oh, wait, it’s your own blog already.
Anyway, your views are not welcome here anymore, toe the line or else.
…..
I’m not even sure I was exaggerating.
Not sure I really understand what Stan G is trying to say – but that’s quite common with many of his comments.
Anyway, I think he’s trying to indicate he has also been “ostracized” by the “intelligencia” for having opinions outside the “politcally correct.”
I know that’s an old fashioned term nowadays, but it is more or less where a lot of the debate about Thailand is on many blogs – old fasHioned and too academic.
StanG: Are you guys so thin-skinned that saying “[I] invite you to consider alternatives to the viewpoint you have put forth” in a private message (that was never meant to be a public statement) now counts as a threat to “toe the line or else?” The last time I checked, you are the one who makes apologies for the 20-year prison sentences handed out to those who don’t “toe the line.” And, the last time I checked, it wasn’t the foreign red intelligentsia that tried to shut Dan up by blocking his site.
(BD: Thank you Federico. I might add that you indeed sent your message in private, from friend to friend. As I thought this could lead to a helpful debate I asked for your permission to publish it as an open letter, which you kindly gave. We should all question our viewpoints, you’re most right about this. Believe me, I’m trying to think red – and vividly remember the certainly also colorful Thaksin-days. Not an easy time as well.)
GeGee: Let’s hear your proposals for how to get there.
I offered ways it can get there (eventually) – all it needs is a belief in democracy (a belief which has been lacking for so many years, and which clearly starts at the top of Thai society).
There is no quick fix, and it will be messy at times, but a good start is for all to just accept election results, let a government govern, and let the people decide whether they want to keep a government or not – that’s something that has never been tried before in Thailand (certainly not for any sustained period).
Military have no business in politics, and certainly should never be the arbiters of who is or isn’t corrupt in Thai society.
Coups should have been delegitimized a long time ago, and I think you know who deserves much of the blame for them still being a possibility.
I agree there are no shining knight saviors, not Thaksin, nor any others – I’m interested in your suggestions as to how the people can be weaned off such beliefs.
(I’ve already made mine above, and elsewhere.)
Obviously my attempt at sarcasm was not appreciated.
Should I talk more about me being ostracized, or thin-skinned, or being called an apologist for twenty-year-long sentences?
Nah, you carry on yourself, guys, I don’t want to steal your show.
I think we (outsiders) need to all put or egos back in the bag for a little while to try and as Federico suggests, be open to alternative view points.
I must admit, after my week upcountry (not with my in-laws, or in Isaan) my opinions have been greatly altered, by listening to the opinions of other people, who are directly involved, other than those just of my family and work colleagues.
GeGee: Well said.
I’m always interested in hearing about proposals for moving forwards.
(I accept I am but an insignificant bystander, who hopefully can keep my ego in check.)
Hobby, if I had the answers I’d be happy to share them with you and anyone hwo would care to listen.
But, just to simplify it, to holding elections, is no “restart.”
Well, actually it is a “restart,” but is no more than what the country has been through, at least 18+ times before, after each coup.
This won’t change people, such as many of the red leaders.
It will give Thaksin the belief he can “get back.”
I know he has taken a lower profile in this protest – so far. But, never count him out.
Elections before reforms – even if superficially conducted on a fair and equal basis, will not change the “invisible forces” which are supposed to guide/control the country.
You might even say the “invisible forces,” “third hands,” “amayata” (or however you spell it) tried to change the game when they held the reigns after the coup and stuffed it up – I would agree with that.
In saying that, of course I would like to see elections – which include everyone equally.
That “yellow shirt” call out (selective voting) is not, and never should be an option.
But, until the scum is cleared out – from ALL sides, I doubt elctions of the sort the reds want are a solution.
That is why I keep going back to saying “it’s not that simple.”
So, no my friend, I don’t have any answers.
I wish I did.
Dan
I agree, it is desirable that UDD would not be such.
However we must take into consideration all the factors and circumstances, which practically leave them no other choice than that: the ALLOWED course of actions. Or perhaps even pre-designed (but that very same establishment against which all the current protests are being held).
Honestly, what else they can really do? With all the GIGANTIC propaganda machine in government/establishment hands, with all the restrictions, laws, as well as blatant bias, double standards, undisguised disenfranchisement, shameless lies (like there were series of TV programs about how in reality “Democrat” government financially helps villagers – giving them some nonsense useless stuff such as machines for drinking water, saying its cost 0.5 million baht while in reality it is hardly even 100K – obviously the rest being pocketed by whoever involved in such SCAMS). Also with all the crackdowns on opposition media (closure of rural communities radio stations, websites, etc.).
When the game is OBVIOUSLY rigged – to demand the “fair play” only from one side is dishonest (not to speak about fairness). Yet somehow UDD are being mocked and scrutinized for all these things – despite all those things unleashed upon them.
Also it is important to mention that UDD leaders are mostly some not so sophisticated “baan nork” people as the members of UDD movement. They do not have such a PROFESSIONAL military strategists as Chamlong, nor a PROFESSIONAL media mogul as Sondhi, nor such a material base, supply and support – as from ALL the elite as well as middle (= muddle!) class – whose finances are actually almost unlimited, comparing to those UDD could ever even dream of! Yeah, even IF allegedly (nobody could prove it so far – not even oh so clever Thai media).
Thaksin pays them – ALL. Thaksin’s meager 76 billion are a drop in the ocean, compared to ALL those monies combined – owned by the elite/ammart/establishment!
So, without taking into consideration all these factors – it is not possible even to come close to the correct assessment of the forces, and thus of their performance.
Yes, it would be good indeed if UDD could use some more original tactics than simply copying PAD.
But hey – I would truly love to see how PAD would be able to perform without such an UNMATCHED backing from army (not to forget that Chamlong is one of them! – once a general, always a general! – as well as Pravit – or who was that officially provided by Anupong to PAD as a “security consultant”?), corporations (Thaksin’s Shin is a baby in comparison to many of them!), old elite, and government!
So, being objective, and taking into consideration all the factors (playing the RIGGED GAME, the pressure, lack of material base, even lack of basic education) – I think UDD so far has performed pretty well!
After all, no any major revolution in the world has happened without “behind-the-curtains” financiers. Not even the “great communist” (= jew) revolution in Russia, nor any of “color-coded” revolutions of recent decades.
Rather the fact that UDD are not being successful till now hints on the possibility that despite still being hijacked by different elite directly or indirectly (even the fact that they use some colored shirts) – nevertheless it is indeed some sort of a genuine folk movement. If it was totally hijacked by elite – it would have been allowed to win quite some time ago already. Because usually hardly any genuine people’s movement is ever allowed to win – only those who make a deal with elite, or directly/indirectly are controlled by elite are seen as “winners.”
I think UDD (reds) should stop being “reds” or wear any particular colors or uniforms, stop copying PAD and whoever else – and concentrate on INFORMATION and EDUCATION warfare instead, first of all! Employing ALL the modern latest IT gadgets, techniques, etc.
But then again – it would remain as merely a wishful thinking on my side, I guess – because all such things require a LOT of money, REGULAR supply of money, tremendous army of bloggers, citizen journalists, contributors, etc.
And in reality – all the peasants (who constitute the majority of UDD) simply can’t afford it neither in terms of money nor even in terms of time – being busy working hard to survive and meet the ends.
Therefore, I am not sure whether they would ever be able to become such an original and really effective force able to make a worthy change?
But the fact that they do not give up and still continue, even on this level, even being a “copycat of yellows”- even that much I think earns them enough RESPECT!
Well, I do NOT try to “think red” or anything. Coz “color-coded” zombifying is precisely the trap set up by those who really “pull the strings.”
However to me it is just too freaking funny all the stupidly blatant dirty tricks, fallacies and other shameless lies Thai media employ – and sometime I just can’t help it but feel like making a comment or two.
I mean – alright, all the fellas from Ab-hee-shit & [pop]Korn elitist “Democrat” club who presently runs the show in this country – sure, they have to conduct their propaganda, and for that employ all sorts of dirty things. I also understand the army and whoever else power brokers and shakers who do the same.
So, it is well understandable that nothing much else can be expected from them – they openly cling to power and all the means employed are justified (for them, not necessarily for others) by their goals.
But hey – media? Who suppose at least to PRETEND being neutral, “fair and balanced,” etc.?
Instead they are being total laughingstock for their undisguised bias. (So much that even Not The Nation was created and enjoys a large popularity.)
And YES – fear mongering is rightly mentioned as one of their sins.
Tulsie – “balanced”? Wua-hahahaha.
Perhaps one has to read more of Fonzi’s blog.
Fonzi’s takes on Tulsie here, multiple & regular, for those interested about how much actually Tulsie is “fair and balanced.”
Tulsie is one of Fonzi’s favorite.
The ONLY person I’ve found so far somewhat really balanced at The Nation – if I remember correctly -, his name is Supalak?
All others, including Tulsie – at very best can be graded no better than gossiping and rumor-spreading old women who are neighbors of my mother-in-law in rural area!
The Nation (and the corporation which owns it) is truly one of those POLITICAL forces who are responsible for many events in this country, and about their likes John Pilger was talking about many times – (as in War by Media):
I really hope that some day these bastards (prostituting for elite so-called “journalists”) would be held responsible for things they’ve done to this country (starting from events of 1976). At very least they could try being honest and write some blogs (well, Yoon does already LOL) and present it honestly as their OWN opinions – instead of BS people and make them believe that they present truths and facts in their newspapers!
Agree with most of it antipadshist, but regarding the government’s media war: remember Thaksin lying about the bird flue like an ignorant fool? The whole world was laughing – and Thais were scared. What’s wrong with this guy! Then taking the journalist to court who reported cracks in the brand new runways of Suvarnabhumi? His knowledge about the disappearance of laywer Somchai he was somehow not able to share? I could go on and on. Don’t romanticize the Thaksin-era. Media were more restricted than today, Remember tbe deplorable self-censorship. That’s maybe the reason why the “countersteer” more massively today. Thaksin, Champion of Democracy. And my mother-in-law’s Miss Thailand. Co-author at least of today’s mess. Not her.
BangkokDan
Dan,
I do not support nor justify Thaksin, nor romanticize his “era.” In fact, I was not even talking anything about him or saying that I agree with those who want him back (even though, he was and is a better businessman than Abhisit or Chuan, and thus could do much more for the Thai economy, to mention the least – even if not say that he done certain things for peasants which endeared him to them for so long, till now).
There was NO any such “Thaksin era” at all: he was groomed by Chamlong, brought to power by Pa P. (& Co.) and supported by them for a while – in other words, ALLOWED to play a role of a figurehead for a while. The “era” was pretty much as possible as long as it was tolerable by those who really pull the strings.
Thaksin is certainly of of elite, even if a “new elite.” At least he had brains – unlike Abhisit.
But I have no illusions regarding him playing first of all his own game (and thus raising the conflict with the old elite); and second, to some extent and till some time, the game of those who ALLOWED him to be a PM for a while. I would not be surprised at all that he plays their game even now – although on the surface, to fool all those sheeple, it appears to be as if he plays his game against them and pro-people.
I think our major difference in opinions is: that I do not see UDD/reds as synonymous to Thaksin-payees who only want to bring him back. Even if actually some part of reds (being too naive or perhaps intentionally mislead, very possibly by very same elite) till now continue to cheer him and anticipate his return and leadership. I see this movement mainly as at very least a beginning of real efforts for some change.
As for the governments media war – I said, it is understandable and somewhat logical to expect from them. But it is never understandable nor justifiable that media themselves eagerly indulge in bias and actively participate in politics – and I would never accept the argument that it is necessary for them to do “in order to prevent the evil one from returning” or any such BS nonsense.
You wanna be a reporter/journo? Then be such, do not play politics, do not sell BS, biased nonsense, sensationalistic low grade crap, rumors, gossip, etc.
Otherwise, if wanna play politics – no problems, but DON’T pretend being a journalist!
Of course while saying “you” – I mean not you, Dan, but all those clowns in the Thai media.
The way “forward” is pretty simple – reds must realize that street politics are out and the only legitimate arena for them lies in parliament and civil society debates where they actually have to work together with their opponents, not against them.
I’d say they are on the verge of going “legal” already. If this demo fails they will have no other choice.
But then again, for some people here “forward” means a radical regime change with all the trimmings.
How come the reds just don’t want for the next election? If their numbers are larger than the rest of Thailand can’t they just vote in who they want in the next election?
(BD: A lot of money changes hands until then …)
Radical regime change is the only way forward, but that doesn’t mean getting rid of PM Abhisit. It means getting rid of Prem, the privy council, and the generals. They are the REAL power pulling the strings.
The best way to go after Prem and the generals would be to take away their vast land holdings, which I am sure were obtained through ill-gotten gain, such as how General Surayud was “gifted” that Khao Yai resort estate he recently had to relinquish. They should start by going after Prem’s land in Chiang Mai.
I have stumbled upon this site trying to find an update about the demonstration in Thailand. All of you seem to know a lot about politics. I had a bad experience from way back during the Thanom & Prapas regime and I fear the same thing would happen this time. Thailand has rarely changed since those times. We always have corrupted governments … some less than others.
I haven’t been following the news about any prime minister. I have never expected much from any of them. But, this I can say, during Thaksin’s period government offices opened during lunch time. I did not have to spend hours waiting for the clerks to come back from lunch to conduct their duties. They were more polite and helpful too. I saw small businesses run by urban people popped up everywhere. At the hospital, I was treated the way I should be treated.
Last month, my mother fell and I went back to be with her. My sister told me that she was adviced to take her to a hospital in an army base, because the hospital that our family usually goes to now has less supplies of medicine.
I also noticed that some government branches went back to the old way of closing the office during lunch time.
Ordinary people like us just need basic commodities in life. We would like to have a roof over our heads, enough food to eat and if possible we want our children to have some education and better future. Most of all we want to be recognized that we too contribute to the country … just because we are mostly quiet does not mean that we are dumb.
I see no future for the reds. It would be a miracle if they can change anything. In the end those innocent people will be just the pawns in a chess game. We have never had real democracy. All these governments that have ever been established from the past to present have never had real power. Who has the real power? I can’t say.
We can’t even criticize a certain group of people without a consequence. What kind of democracy is that?
Looks like reds has made known a new tactic, I guess it can be called “painting red”:
“Nuttawut Saikua, a red shirt leader, announces that a total of three million cc of blood will be taken from one million red shirts tomorrow. If the prime minister still refuses to dissolve the house, the blood will be poured at Democrat Party, the Government House and the PM’s residence.”
That is a pretty unusual thing, sort of a blood sacrifice?
Well, from a certain point of view it’s pretty logical, I guess: sort of “anyway these rascals suck our blood” or something like that (as well as slaughter, literally, as in ’76 and ’92).
Three million cc – hmmm …
Sondhi Lim’s “bloodied tampons” stuff pales in the scale!
To me it is quite strange actually. Smells rather as some sort of occultism/magic being employed rather than a political action.
(BD: Looks like a pompous exit strategy.)
Tks Dan, for reminding some here (it seems many red sharks here) that Thaksin clearly. was not the inspiration for democracy itself. Nice to point out some old big mistakes and errors by him. All and more also readable here on your own blog.
Especially in terms of media manipulation, and his brutal dictator-style leadership cost many people’s lives, nerves, unneeded lawsuits, etc.
Not to forget his big scale corruption and law amendments to mainly profit his own and his cronies’ companies/pockets.
The problem is actually I believe, Asian countries with poor eduction systems are actually – if we are honest – not suitable for Western style democracy. So why are you guys all screaming for it?
Actually it would require a strong government (the least possible corrupt government ;o) to finally bring the education system on near-Western levels, so elections would make sense.
Also each election in the past view years were mostly corrupted and paid by Thaksin. I know of several upcountry families who were paid since years, only by Thaksin’s party. None else. Democracy, anyone?
So the joke of this red shirt rally is foremost that he just claimed yesterday he’s the inspiration and his reds should fight for democracy, not for him. Ah yes?
Don’t forget chaps, Thaksin back then even openly declared that he doesn’t need democracy during his dictator-style leadership. Mostly not even his own team was consulted. Mostly all decisions were made by him only, based on short-term tempers and moods it seemed. Total arrogant and in love with himself. Dangerously paranoid too.
And even some off his closest allies today, like Jakaprob Penkair before they started to work with him, criticized Thaksin for his media-manipulation. How quick can opinions change? Money and power, that’s the key answer.
Thaksin a role model for Thailand? I doubt it seriously. The opposite I guess.
All above notes/claims can be read also here on aB.com – just search for Thaksin, and read some of Dan’s older stories.
Question is now: Why the hell do the reds want to have Thaksin back? He and democracy are as black and white as it gets. I’m just saying he’s taking and taking you all for a ride but actually has only one thing in mind: power lust, greed and more money. Especially power lust.
Please rethink again before you dream of a red shirt revolution which finally should bring back “true democracy.” I’m sure it just will get even worse if the next election would be once again bought by Thaksin (same as most likely 80% of the demonstrators would never show up if they wouldn’t get his cash handouts).
If you want progress now in Thailand, then just let Abhisit continue with his education program and other good, honest and well-meant ideas, and meanwhile yes check the current government’s actions too. Corrupt people are everywhere in Thailand, so don’t dream of one clean red new government solution by just turning the clock backwards to some dream-like times that never really were here.
The main point is I guess: Honesty, morality and a try for a real long-term plan/solution has to be heard from the top man. If the man on top of the pyramid is already spreading lies, is corrupt and has no plan to tackle environmental issues as well, how will the rest below ever learn what is right and what is wrong.
Why now move backwards again and place all in one hand/silly and dangerous mind.
Look at his followers, launching grenades since years, threatening to bomb and kill etc., planning to collect blood sample for voodoo-style rituals.
These are the minds of his creating with brutal selfish rhetoric. Wait and see in the next view days, Thaksin & Co. will make their next mistakes again, over and over again.
Please stop supporting Thaksin for the sake of Thailand, it just makes no sense at all.
(BD: Question is who are the bigger liars and robbers.)
Andy is another in a long line who equates anti-coup, pro-democracy as therefore meaning must be pro-Thaksin.
How about giving democracy a chance to mature in Thailand?
Are you so blind as to not see a pattern of military coups “required” to rid the country of “corrupt” politicians – when do democracy and THE PEOPLE get a chance to mature politically?
Why can a few fat cat military generals be forever determining who is corrupt? (Ever wondered how they got so wealthy themselves?)
Try getting over Thaksin, he is not the only devil in Thailand, far from it – have you considered that he’s only being made out to be the “source of all evil” precisely because he is extraordinarily popular (not semi-divine, and just a mere politician), and because he made really did make it harder for the the old network members to continue reaping their “abnormal gains”?
Hobby, I wonder what is your insider know-how of defining which generals benefited more or not? Just because there was a coup doesn’t mean the military is a homogenous package of only anti-Thaksin members and all cash in. Far off it.
Again Thaksin is the greatest(er) evil and therefore simply not suitable to run this country. If you think otherwise, then I think you don’t understand what long-term problems and mentality he spread(s) throughout the country.
People were never so money and capital greedy and aggressive as today. See Thailand a view years back, money was not no. 1 topic. Now it is.
Or do you want a sort off N.Y. Stock Exchange to take over Thailand with Thaksin as shareholder and only consider max-profit for portfolio members only and rob the whole country dry and flat and stock all profits outside the country?
Please stop dreaming and pick what we have now.
It’s like a restaurant menu. You can only order what’s on the menu and not dream of some homemade farang Avatar solutions for Thailand.
Andy: My latest lazy blog post is tailor-made for people like you, so will not bother to comment further here.
I don’t think we can get anywhere by pointing fingers. Any kind of demonstrations whether to occupy the parliament, closing down the air port or marching on the street, bloodletting … etc. … All of these cause destruction and disruption in people’s lives. As always the real people that suffer are those that need to fend for their families.
What measure do you use to judge a person? As for me, I judge them by what they can do to help my family and my community. A direct hit from the change after the coup is that now I have to go to an army hospital for a better care. A student in my village who went to school on scholarship almost had to drop out because the program was no longer funded. A lot of people have to chip in the money to help her finish school. She’s the lucky one because there are others that simply have to drop out.
A real change can only come from the people themselves. I think democracy have a chance to flourish if more people keep their mind open and willing to compromise for the good of others. People with one-sided mind are an obstacle for democracy.
AB is a good site.
Interestingly, l just came across relevant info: in Thailand it also costs millions:
Democracy anyone?
By the people for the people?
I doubt that “people” (say, some Isaan farmers) can afford paying 10 million merely for being eligible to run for a MP position, as a representative from their area.
Which brings to the natural conclusion of: WHO (what kind of “people”) has a chance to get elected at least as an ordinary MP – not to speak of becoming a PM! Even Jatuporn, already MP, hardly would ever AFFORD running for PM – while pretty boy Abhisit had not much problems. Or imagine Veera, with his not at all photogenic typical Isaan peasant face – being ever allowed to become a PM! I almost hear the outrage of good fellow urban folks and elite – “What a sacrilege! Buffalo became PM!”
(BD: Well Banharn had the honor …)
It is tragic that anyone would elect a PM based on his looks not his ideals and ability to govern.
Dan
Well, I guess my detailed post about “Democracy” was too long that it got modded out – I understand.
Anyway, trying to reproduce its essence:
The whole idea of “Democracy” is a BIG JOKE, fake.
There is NO and never been “… by the people, for the people” anywhere in the world.
Even in ancient Athenian “democracy” – where only adult males who got military training had the privilege and right to vote – who comprised at most a quarter of the population (some source say – only 10%). Excluding women, “aliens,” half-bloods, etc.
And on the top of that, this “majority rule” (who was actually minority) allowed slavery, in fact in Athens it was more than in other Greek cities.
Modern “democracies” are no better – being mostly “corporate fascism” states.
So, yes – “Democracy anyone?”