Carte Blanche

58 Responses to “Carte Blanche”

1. Federico on May 15th, 2010 11:15 am

   Maybe we should start with this.

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2. Jarrett on May 15th, 2010 12:27 pm

   Federico,

   I read your translation of that event, and I’ve got one question (it was unclear to me): Was that child inside the car that was trying to recklessly drive through a military checkpoint, and whose tires were first fired upon?

   If so, the fingers here should point in more direction than one. We all need to keep an open mind in this situation, regardless of our own ideology. Thai troops shooting unarmed civilians is WRONG – it is a crime. Children dying in Bangkok’s streets in beyond the pale. But exposing your own children to grave dangers because of your own political indoctrination is also a serious crime, and an easily avoidable one. What the f–k are children doing in a war zone, where leaders are calling for people to give up their lives for an illusory cause?

   There’s no one left to root for. Let’s be honest.

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3. Jaded on May 15th, 2010 12:45 pm

   Frederico is right. Its sickening …

   The unelected authorities who really rule Thailand are getting away with murder as usual. Forget about all the issues that its illegal to talk about. Even basic background information does not get into the stories. I have yet to see any international news channel mention CRES let alone the fact that the Suthep was forced to resign as an MP over corrpution/conflict of interest allegations but continues to serve as deputy PM and putative head of this crackdown? CNN put up the most laughably biased “timeline” that I have ever seen. There is very little real interest in what is happening here (as usual) and on CNN now I am seeing famous faces with almost no knowledge hovering like vultures in the anticipation of some sensational carnage. The BBC grabbed an interview with a London red shirt supporter that at least had the merit of providing an alternative view in soundbite form. But is really depressing to watch interviews with Korn insinuating that he stands for liberal moderation. The smiling government spokesman propounds the most dire nonsense and is then being glossed by the foreign media with third hand unattributed accounts of armed demonstrators. I don’t doubt that they are there but what I actually see is combat infantry carrying automatic weapons firing at people armed with sticks and firecrackers, sniper teams attempting to assassinate key personalities and different attempts to intimidate the media into spinning the story the government’s way. The news cycle is pushing Thailand as news though. As a lot of this is happening in the evening it fits very well with the European and American prime time programing.

   It’s obvious that there is deadline to meet now so we can expect this ruling class perpetrated, murderously criminal obscenity to be over soon. Then our betters can get back to doing what they do best. The foreign minister can get back to bullying diplomats and avoiding those terrorism charges. The commerce minister can focus on her core competence of people trafficing and sex slavery. The defense minister can focus on buying military equipment for three or four times the normal price and then making sure that the generals all correctly receive their tea money in their offshore bank accounts. The finance minister can get back to manipulating Thai growth figures and borrowing or printing enormous sums of money to shore up the exploitation economy. Coalition parties can receive their generous share of the take and commit political suicide in the knowledge that popular politics doesn’t matter anyway. And Abhisit can smile his smarmy smile and deny any and all awkward suggestions that Thailand is a failed state run by gangsters on behalf of a kleptocracy.

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4. Dave on May 15th, 2010 12:53 pm

   A sad and tragic set of events which seems to be getting worse. As a whitie our opinions are as valuable as a wet newspaper to the locals, but we can at least share our ideas with each other, eh?

   Elections would make sense. But then the budget/military reshuffle will benefit Thaksin’s return to power. The reds believe they are fighting for democracy against the biased two tier power system, and they’re right. But, as we all know, Thaksin’s self interest is his only goal.

   The propaganda of the reds and from the other side is too ingrained. Bangkokians think that they are all paid stooges and so offer little sympathy for their slaughter, and in a Buddhist country! Reds believe that Abhisit is a terrorist/Hitler etc. This can only end with election or massacre I guess … In that situation, it has to be election … Thaksin is a good chess player, but has proven his heart is stone, if we didn’t already know it.

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5. J on May 15th, 2010 1:14 pm

   Anger: That I find your description so accurate. There is a legitimate movement here that goes far beyond Thaksin’s money, but the actions of the militants all along, and of the leaders over the last week or so have seemed almost calculated to discredit it.

   Fear: That all of Thailand will become like the south, with bombings, reprisals, murders and riots as red and yellows fight it out. A limited civil war.

   Regrets: Not understanding the importance of the 2006 coup before I moved here – it just looked like one more in a long line of coups.

   Getting my hopes up last week that this might be resolved with no more major violence.

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6. Vichai N on May 15th, 2010 1:24 pm

   The reds’ leadership (including supreme red leader Thaksin Shinawatra and currently incapacitated General Khattiya) planned for and got exactly this kind of nearly one-way mayhem when the reds’ protests was started (introducing M79 fireworks aplenty even before the red march begun!).

   Many (but not all) of those stupid reds getting shot at were attacking the soldiers. Stupid rage???

   I still do not get to see their point of resisting overwhelming military force. If they expect any sympathy from Vichai N, they won’t get it.

   I hate martyrs. Stupid martyrs most of all I totally abhor.

   BTW, for those stupids yet to be martyrs who still don’t get it: Abhisit was elected stupid! Abhisit and Thaksin and Somchai and Samak were all products of coalition backroom deals.

   (BD: Pretty emotional Vichai!)

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7. Lloyd on May 15th, 2010 1:59 pm

   There is a simple solution and it has been in the hands of the government for a long time.

   An amnesty for all parties and fresh elections with a few simple caveats, Thaksin, Sondhi, Abhisit and any of those currently in power, under investigation for crimes or corruption or their families cannot be part of any political party nor donate to any party involved in the elections. All funding for the army must be frozen and an independant body should overseas voting and elections.

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8. Jarrett on May 15th, 2010 2:12 pm

   @Lloyd: That’s hardly a “simple” solution.

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9. Jaded on May 15th, 2010 2:13 pm

   I agree with Vichai. Thaksin and his proxy, Seh Daeng, must have recognized that, at least for their own purposes, the demonstration would only be a success if if the government responded to it as a provocation. I think Abhisit and the more politically astute figures on whom he relies for support understood this too and tried to restrain the reactionary forces that felt this affront to their power had to be dealt with severely. But now that the violence has begun its going to take a miracle to avoid a bloodbath.

   This crackdown represents an opportunity for extreme elements on all sides. If you argue that the current government is the product of the democratic process then its difficult to see how this will enhance the reputation of democracy in Thailand. But if you argue that the democratic process has been subverted then its difficult to approach the question of how can the process be changed if the institutions of the state have been effectively undermined. Extreme elements on both sides will reach quite similar conclusions …

   Political destabilization requires the undermining of the reputation of democracy to deliver effective government. Sondi has already come out and made a statement to this effect today. His voice will be heard by many on all sides as a recognition that the institutions of the state, and the political system itself has broken down …

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10. Blue on May 15th, 2010 2:20 pm

    Vichai: all those words and then you refer to yourself in the third person: “… sympathy from Vichai N, they won’t get it.”

    Gee Vichai. What happened? I thought you had a higher vocabulary and better ability to communicate than this.

    Sorry to see your calm go down the drain…

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11. GeGee on May 15th, 2010 2:30 pm

    Sadly, Jaded is correct – in both posts.

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12. Blue "A proposal for help" on May 15th, 2010 2:40 pm

    I do not know how to go about it or, indeed if it is even worthwhile. Besides that, the Puea Thai party is not exactly the best leadership but, it is the only current party possible for the UDD.

    I would suggest someone contact them and tell them this:

    If they truly support the UDD go now … go … go to the barricades as a group of MPs and rally in front of the protesters to protect them from the guns.

    I am convinced confronted by hundreds of MPs the military would be forced to back down.

    I know, this is naive, simplistic and a crazy gamble.

    But, let the Puea Thai put their money where their mouth is.

    Somebody … do this … contact the Puea Thai NOW …

    (BD: To, sorry, let them make tragic fools of themselves like the red leaders?)

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13. Steve on May 15th, 2010 2:56 pm

    As a response to Alastair Leithead’s request, I’ll go along with Thailand Friend’s suggestion that I’ve just seen on NM:
    

    “These are a big part of Thailand and they want RESPECT from the establishment.”

    (BD: Tragically they just lost a lot of respect, now they’re more marginalized than ever I’m afraid.)

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14. Lloyd on May 15th, 2010 2:58 pm

    @Jarrett

    Yellow shirt protests lasting more than 180 days causing billions of dollars damage to the Thai economy and the now Red shirt protests lasting another 90 or more causing far less financial damage but once again bring Thailand into the worldwide media spotlight in a negative way. That is more than nine months wasted, the army, judiciary and politicians have all known that from the day they handed power to a party that has nothing more than a minority of the vote, that there would be trouble. There is more than half a century of anger within silenced by the majority that can no longer be silenced by the minority.

    Only a free and populace vote can bring about the beginnings change, a change that will be good for some and bad for others.

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15. GeGee on May 15th, 2010 3:00 pm

    Hey Blue, if English is your first language, lay off Vichai.

    Even if you disagree with his comments, you should focus on what he says, not how he says it.

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16. GeGee on May 15th, 2010 4:04 pm

    Lloyd & Jarrett, in another place your ideal of an election to clear the air, is a noble one indeed.

    However, unless all parties will adhere to the same set of rules, your solution is little more than wishful thinking.

    Please don’t get me wrong, I am not supporting that very undemocratic idea floated by the PAD, to have a mixture of appointed and elected representatives.

    I think we can all see how unsatisfactory, a similar set up is, in the example of the current senate member selection. That is not the answer.

    So, back to a FREE & FAIR election, which is acceptable to all.

    From what I see of Thai politicians, for many (maybe even most), their modus operendi seems to be first and foremost: “What’s in it for me.”

    They further have a belief – which is in part due to the Thai hierarchal setup – that the people are there to serve them, rather than the other way around. This is common to all sides of the political spectrum. You can even look at how the red shirt leaders are treating their followers right now, to know what I mean.

    Rather than call it a day, and live on to fight another battle, and most importantly stem the loss of lives, they are having a fight to the death. Well that is, they are letting the “cannon fodder” have a fight to the death, while they hide in their air conditioned container/bunker. They are too bound up in their own egos, vanity, (some say) a desire for a payout from the Big Boss, to understand that a lot of people have put a lot of faith in them to deliver. The same can be said of many many Thai “elected” politicians.

    But as my Thai u country father-in-law used to say: “You take what you can. These pretty words, are just that.”

    Believe me, there are more people like my pa upcountry, than those faithfully sitting at Ratchaprasong, or manning the the tyre and bamboo barricades right now.

    There is no quick fix here. This will take years.

    An election must be held when things settle down enough to let Democrats campaign in the northeast and PT or even PAD campaign freely and without intimidation, anywhere in the country.

    This will not happen if an election was held right now.

    There is of course more to this than the politicians turning into clean skins.

    There are a million and one things needing attention in Thailand. But cleaner politicians who put their constituent’s interests first would be a good start.

    An election under present conditions is only likely to result in it being, same, same, only different.

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17. Vichai N on May 15th, 2010 4:56 pm

    Stupid rage (they do attack the soldiers who merely wait at their posts) vs. overwhelming military force.

    The fiery rhetorics and demagoguery of the past two months by the Red leadership had been enough to drive those usually passive Thai village and urban poor into a frenzy of blind stupid rage.

    The red leadership were working the red mob for exactly the type of one-way mayhem seen the past two days at Bangkok streets.

    General Khattiya did say he was hired directly by Thaksin Shinawatra to incite a civil war (refer to Wall Street Journal interview of General Khattiya, dated May 5th, 2010) …

    No government in the world would allow anarchy to rule its streets and PM Abhisit’s government, after exercising all required measured response to escalating Red violence and provocations, had no other recourse but to restore law and order in Bangkok, BY FORCE, because it is now the only way.

    Now we can all only wait for the military/police to complete their thankless law enforcement assignment.

    COME NEXT ELECTION …

    As a mark of courage of any would-be political office aspirant, he will be required to make a public speech for not less 15 minutes on the topic “courage/honesty in political office,” at an elevated stage at Sanam Luang (or Sala Daeng) without wearing any bullet-proof vest or helmet.

    Oh yes they can wear their favorite blazing red or yellow suit at that stage.

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18. Chunkton on May 15th, 2010 6:22 pm

    Thailand is as we all know complicated, I see no good guys here, just bad guys to varying degrees chasing power. The Red protest is a pain in the arse, however Abbhisit is a usurper that did not get elected and represents an oppressive elite that will hold power at any cost.

    Suspect the Reds are a mixture of those seeking genuine change and being manipulated by Taksin. Yet for all his faults he was the legally elected PM that was kicked out by the same people that support Abhisit.

    We as foreigners are but mere spectators and suggest we hold onto our seats. If can divest financially here probably best to do so. Not sure if I will do so in time and don’t really want to as things were going well … sad.

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19. GeGee on May 15th, 2010 7:03 pm

    How many times do people need to be told; true Thaksin won elections by landslide majorities, but he was not PM when the coup happened, and had been only caretaker PM before he went to the U.N. – of whom he once famously said “is not his father,” to try and make his dubious case.

    It is true that the government of which Abhisit was voted PM, came to power by seizing an opportunity – which was 100% legal in a legal/constitutional sense (even the now “much loved,” 1997 constitution would have allowed it), was dubious in an ethical sense.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but facts are facts – please don’t distort them to support your comments.

    I do however agree, there is not a quick fix. And agree with that old saying that many people used to say – and now will say again: “never invest more in Thailand, than you can afford to walk away from.”

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20. StanG on May 15th, 2010 7:42 pm

    Reds firing M79 grenades:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hmSPbugDAA

    At the latest press conference Sansern said there have been 18 grenade attacks. As he was speaking there were tweets of a new attack on Lumpini police station seriously injuring an officer and his family:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1278378/Thai-protester-shot-head-taunting-armed-troops-laser-pointer.html

    Some idiot decided to play with laser pointers, targeting some troops, just as an M79 spotter did on April 10. Was quickly picked out by army snipers.

    France24 journalist shot yesterday didn’t have a green media band, at least in the video. He was all clad in black instead, with black sunglasses obscuring his farangness, mingling with the protester crowd just an hour before being shot.

    Another dude was shot on his balcony when he thought it would be a good vantage spot to observe the fighting. What was he thinking? It’s not a movie theater out there, is it?

    There were also tweets about army snipers killing another sniper on a roof after people spotted him first.

    What was that sniper doing there? Who were his targets? At this point killing reds makes better PR than killing soldiers.

    These are a few Andrew Marshall tweets.

    “Don’t believe the hype,” says Israeli cameraman Guil, who happens to pass. “These fuckers are armed.”

    Guil has just returned from Din Daeng, north of rally site.

    “The real war is there. It’s like Sarajevo.”

    Guil is a bear of a man, fearless and streetwise, and clad in body armor. If he’s going home, so am I.

    On BD’s definition of reds – my correction:

    An important legitimate grassroots FEELINGS of hard working, honest people hijacked by militants & let down by their leaders.

    They didn’t start the movement themselves, it was a setup from the start.

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21. Steve on May 15th, 2010 9:35 pm

    A familiar text from Vichai N (i.e. also cut/pasted and posted word-for-word elsewhere):

    “General Khattiya did say he was hired directly by Thaksin Shinawatra to incite a civil war (refer to Wall Street Journal interview of General Khattiya, dated May 5th, 2010)”

    For reasons best known to himself Vichai N doesn’t provide a link for the above – so here it is:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB30001424052748703866704575223772181634604.html

    Readers bothering to check will see that it doesn’t say what’s claimed.

    2 + 2 = 5 for Vichai N it seems. Wishful reading? Selective memory?

    (BD: Have to disagree. In essence Vichai N is saying what Seh Daeng told the Journal. Not word by word though.)

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22. Steve on May 15th, 2010 10:45 pm

    “Not word by word though.”

    ROFL?

    BD, you have a curious idea of “essence” if you think

    “he was hired directly by Thaksin Shinawatra to incite a civil war”

    is evidenced in that interview.

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23. BangkokDan on May 15th, 2010 11:04 pm

    Quoting these “essences” from the WSJ piece Vichai N refers to:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703866704575223772181634604.html

    “He says he raised his ragtag militia for one last mission: to turn the marathon anti-government protest on the streets of Bangkok into a full-blown civil war.”

    “But the rogue commander says he has his own authority stemming directly from Mr. Thaksin.”

    “”I won’t leave until Mr. Thaksin tells me to,” Maj. Gen. Khattiya adds.”

    You don’t have to read anything into it to get the message in the message. By far much less ambiguous than all the other incomprehensible stuff we’re fed these days.

    BangkokDan

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24. Chamlong on May 16th, 2010 12:50 am

    Reading many of these posts makes me laugh and I do need a good chuckle nowadays. I really like the elementary school tirades of Vichai N. (you are aiming your comments at the wrong audience) and the sophomoric observations of StanG (a red shirt caught on video firing an “M79,” you better get some glasses, dude). But when it comes down to the mayhem engulfing Bangkok at the moment it does not matter what any of you think or say. What impact, if any, can your prescient analyses have on the matter? None. Are any of you direct stakeholders to the present struggle? No. This is a testosterone-laden dog fight between Thai elites and their minions (red shirt protesters and soldiers) which are expendable. In fact, none of you will ever truly understand the intricacies of Thailand’s political crisis or uncover the real reasons behind the actions we are witnessing. So just sit back and enjoy the show. You have to admit the past two months have been quite exhilarating and all of this chaos and violence is a wet dream cum true. Do not hesitate. Now is the time for you to take advantage of the opportunity to experience a real “battle” zone and later on share your “war” stories with the easily impressed. By the way, it is often said that the only “enemy” the Thai military can beat up properly is the Thai people.

    Here’s my prediction: It will all be over by tomorrow.

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25. Blue "Two wrongs?" on May 16th, 2010 4:04 am

    GeeGee: “Two wrongs don’t make a right”?

    Allow me to elaborate on why this is illogical.

    First of all, if you say two wrongs … thus you obviously agree the military putsch was a “wrong.”

    OK … agreed.

    Now I suppose you are suggesting the current red shirt protest is the second wrong.

    (OK, let us not dwell on the fact you are ignoring the actual second wrong, which was the PAD (now at 1.7% of the vote in a recent poll) They were allowed to bring the country to a standstill, and with the military refusing to support the NEW ELECTED government they brought down another elected government…and not once … but twice!)

    But alright, for the sake of keeping things simple, let us say the second wrong you refer to is the current reds in BKK.

    Now … since you have agreed the military intervention of September 6, 2006 was the first wrong, we can assume military intervention in civilian affairs to be generally “wrong.”

    Thus …. the military reaction now should be considered the THIRD wrong. If the first intervention in 2006 was wrong, this one is even worse!

    So, in your opinion … two wrongs don’t make a right. But three do?

    I say: THREE wrongs do not make a right either.

    It seems whenever the wrong is committed by the military or government, it is ignored (or in your case the wrong committed by the tiny minority PAD thugs) But when the poor and near-poor react, it becomes a wrong against which any force needed, to contain the JUSTIFIABLE discontent of these poor people, is condoned.

    I suggest putting it another way. One wrong as serious as the anti-constitutional, anti-democratic and illegal coup of 2006 will always lead to more “wrongs,” and the downward spiral now created will probably never go away until that first wrong, the military putsch of September 2006 is acknowledged and atoned for.

    Justice for those against who the first wrong was committed is the only way forward …

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26. BangkokDan on May 16th, 2010 9:00 am

    Too many wrongs in your elaborations. Too many wrongs under Thaksin then. True, there should have been another way out, but it is foolish to ignore the dangerous shortcomings and threats the Thaksin government posed. But, that’s the problem here, people forget so easily. Today many foreigners see him as an icon of democracy beside Aung San Suu Kyi. They lack the background and context. Back then something had to happen. Everything going on right here and now is directly related to this man, by him trying to portray his own struggle as a class war.

    BangkokDan

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27. Blue "Thaksin???" on May 16th, 2010 9:25 am

    CHAMLONG: First I think you should get off your high horse. Try writing more in the style of Hemingway and not try to emulate Tolstoy. Or just create a few readable paragraphs “à la farang.”

    The way people write reflects not their vocabulary but their ability to communicate with others. This is not a pissing contest about who can be more eloquent on the written page.

    You ask if “we” are stakeholders on the current stage? yes we are, because we either share a common humanity or we ignore all others. To misuse a commonly misused word: empathy.

    You write: “none of you will ever truly understand the intricacies of Thailand’s political crisis or uncover the real reasons behind the actions we are witnessing”

    Well then Chamlong, step down off the soap box and enlighten us all.

    The point is not who can truly understand (with varying degrees) and analyze the current social-political situation but, who feels empathy (again, that misused word that still seems so perfectly appropriate) with whom.

    Stating support is what it is about, or a release perhaps for some, or whatever reasons others may have. I wish you would do that, use what ability at eloquence you do have to state something constructive and just belittle the entire army of commenters. It might be interesting but then, write in a way most people are able to understand.

    You do though conclude with a bit if witticism that seems utterly, and sadly apropos: “It is often said that the only “enemy” the Thai military can beat up properly is the Thai people.”

    PS: I am feeling irritable today so do not take this personally.

    BD:

    “Today many foreigners see him as an icon of democracy beside Aung San Suu Kyi. They lack the background and context. Back then something had to happen”

    Have no idea why this is mentioned. I made it clear in other posting I dislike this man and even more so, Seh Daeng.

    I do not think foreigners see Taksin as a savior at all. he was a ruthless and ambitious man using the poor for his own might.

    Hey … wow … sounds like Bush … Berlusconi … Blair … sounds like a democratic trend?

    It is not by stopping democracy as it is evolving dead in its tracks and then dismantling it that you can save democracy. Democracy must evolve despite its stumbling, its pitfalls and flaws.

    You do not blow up a bridge and then tell people they must cross the water by jumping over wet rocks. You repair the bridge.

    Taksin could have been gone in the next elections had the military been patient for a couple of months. There was a legal process for them to go through also.

    The truth is, democracy is over-rated. But wherever you have a military that can run a country (as Thais has for three quarters of a century) you will find that one of the reasons democracy falters is because they have destroyed all meaningful opposition and the politicians left standing are businessmen with banners.

    Thats ia all today’s politicians are; businessmen with banners.

    “O my soul do not aspire to immortal life
    But exhaust the limits of the possible”

    Pindar

    That is all we can do, not bring down the house every few years to guarantee full power remains in the hand of s few, and not dream about a utopia when finding ways to get the poor a slightly more decent way of life and decent health care is all we can hope to accomplish … for the time being.

    In other words, shrugging off events with the idea that before “something had to be done” is not the right way to deal with history.

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28. Dave on May 16th, 2010 10:44 am

    I always support catapult slingers against the army. It’s a tragedy. The reds believe they are fighting for democracy and are prepared to die for it … in reality they are fighting for the return of a filthy fascist called Thaksin … f- the soldiers, f- Thaksin … love the people … no war … educate, liberate, don’t dominate …

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29. gary fouse on May 16th, 2010 11:36 am

    I have occasionally posted accounts of my years in Bangkok with the U.S. Embassy and DEA 1975-78. I don’t know the ins and outs of this current crisis, but all I can say is that my prayers are for the people of Thailand.

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30. Chamlong on May 16th, 2010 1:07 pm

    “… it is foolish to ignore the dangerous shortcomings and threats the Thaksin government posed. But, that’s the problem here, people forget so easily. Today most foreigners see him as an icon of democracy beside Aung San Suu Kyi.”

    Nice move, BD! The writer puts forward some good points that it is the Thai military which is completely responsible for the mess Thailand finds itself in, and what do you do? Thrown in Thaksin and his “abuse of power” in an attempt either to invalidate your opponent’s arguments or to deflect attention away from truly exploring the Thai military’s malevolent and anti-democratic presence in the country’s political arena. Your counter-stroke works only on those who have forgotten their history. Remember that ever since this country became a “constitutional” monarchy back in 1932 the institution of the military has been the guardian and the manager of Thai politics. It supports the status quo with assassinations, coups, disappearances, vote buying and rigging, intimidation, press censorship, and vicious suppression of public demonstrations (except the royally-blessed Yellow Shirts). That being said, you are foolish to ignore the “sins” of Gen. Sarit Thanarat, Gen. Thanom Kittikachorn, Gen. Prem Tinsulanonda, Gen. Suchinda Kraprayoon and Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin. Indeed, the whole system is rotten to the core but it does appear that all you want to do is to highlight the “evils” of only one man and overlook the criminality of either this man’s predecessors or successors. Fair and balanced?

    Secondly, when you write “dangerous shortcomings and threats” you are being ambiguous with your accusation, please do specify. Also, there does not exist on this planet a government or a political leadership that does not exhibit authoritarian tendencies while in office. In fact, oligarchic cliques invariably emerge to assert their control over the State and use it for their own selfish interests at the expense of the masses. It’s politics, man. The pursuit of and the subsequent maintenance and expansion of power by all means necessary, including the electoral process. Are you stating that Thaksin is the exception and not the rule? Are you contending that Thaksin is the sole cause for the turbulence Thailand has undergone since 2006 rather than just a mere symptom? Keep in mind that the military and its civilian collaborators (e.g. Democrat Party) have had close to four years not only to eradicate the ghost of Thaksin but also to win the hearts and minds of his supporters. However, this cabal of traditional elites talks about reconciliation but then instinctively reverts to threats, force and judicial rulings to suppress and to oppress all legitimate forms of opposition and resistance. Their fear of the future and their loss of position, privilege and power is palpable. In short, they have done great damage to the national fabric of Thailand and now it’s time to pay the piper.

    Thirdly, what empirical evidence do you possess that “Today most foreigners see him (Thaksin) as an icon of democracy beside Aung San Suu Kyi”? Did you conduct an exhaustive poll? How many people took part in your survey? What questions did you ask? You definitely have put yourself out on a limb with this statement. For the record, I view Thaksin as an accomplished politician who is reacting/behaving in a very Thai manner – exacting revenge. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of The Appointed One, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva? Puppet? Eunuch? Despot? Actor? Thaksin’s twin?

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31. BangkokDan on May 16th, 2010 1:43 pm

    Thanks for your observations. Most of the points you raise are covered on this site already. But just to give you a sample of how abuses under the Thaksin regime worked:

    My son’s school belongs to Democrats. Not my bunch of people, but hey, during the last days of Thaksin the owner was on TV regularly. Basically telling Thaksin how he saw things. One sunny day police raided the school. For nothing really. Checking teachers’ work permits and so forth, but still some threats here and there and scaring kids. Clear as that sunny Bangkok morning that Thaksin used his police buddies. Privatizing state power. We had good fun. The poor chaps first raided the wrong school. When they arrived at the correct one they were tired already.

    One could go on and on. Lawyer Somchai? Thaksin basically said he knows who’s behind the lawyer’s disappearance. Doesn’t make him in any way a suspect. Still.

    Etc. etc.

    Pretty boy Abhisit? Should have refused the job. Thailand could well use a man like him some time in the future. His own future gets killed right now. Still one of the better choices. Last comparable figure? Anand. Would still prefer Chuan to keep Abhisit for the future. Now Chuan’s a spare tire. Not too bad.

    Foreigners romanticizing Thaksin? You’re one of them. Read the English-Thai blogging world or certain foreign correspondents.

    Media? Clearly less free than today. All the self-censorship. Remember iTV? And that was the pre-blogging era. Just imagine Thaksin’s empire in control today.

    BangkokDan

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32. GeGee on May 16th, 2010 2:37 pm

    Blue, I don’t need to respond to your comments related to my post, you’ve already done it for me…without even asking. Very clever. Where did you go for your ESP course? It might help me in my marital debates !!
    But I do agree with you regarding your words to Chamlong, concerning farang angst and thoughts on Thailand, being a waste of time.
    Even if our jottings are little more than pissing in the wind and “testosterone-fueled”, if we have made a commitment to live here and/or involve ourselves with Thai people, I believe we have very valid reasons for making comments.
    Maybe it is a forlorn hope we will help change things, what else can we do ? Just shut up and role with the punches? Isn’t “obedience” under a rather strong patronage system a large part of why things are as they are today in Thailand?
    Chamlong, I also don’t think Dan is that niave to believe, this all starts and ends with Thaksin – none of us do.
    This mess has been a long time in the making, and Thaksin was (and still is) a major ingredient. More, there are several others throughout the years and before the 1st false start of democracy in 1932, who one could consider, to be even more influential than he ever was/is. But he is here. He is still very much, a man in the middle.
    Whether or not he is the “all powerful one”, we might know more about that in the next few days.
    Then again, maybe not…

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33. Airleeks on May 16th, 2010 3:04 pm

    A repeat of the actions of the PAD, i.e. months of useless demonstrations by the reds are not going to change anything.

    It’s a recurring nightmare since the 1930s.

    As much as I abhor violence of any form, I do believe that it has to get worse before it gets any better. Like a boil that has to be lanced.

    The reds are already branded “terrorists” so what difference does it make which roadmap you follow?

    The reds have a perfect opportunity to go for all out mayhem.

    Democracy in this context without all out blood shed for the people to remember for generations to come, means absolutely nothing, a freebie that is easily forgotten. “There is no such thing as a free lunch,” someone has to pay for it.

    Malaysians will not forget the events of 13th May 1969 to this day.

    What have you got to lose reds? M79s come on … thats child’s play, and you can’t even use it properly. I’m eagerly waiting to see if you lot have any teeth.

    I’d also like to see Suthep order some Type 69 Battle tanks to just drive straight through and over the encampment area, end of story – Type 69 from China used against demonstrators in Tiananmen. Women, childern whoever is in the way will be reduced to a “Thai pancake.”

    Abhisit has defended his actions internationally, and is going to crush the reds. I say the reds also have every right to go on the offensive.

    Ultimately there is no winner or loser, everyone should be fighting as though its theirs to lose.

    It would be interesting to see if the reds have the holding power or the resources to fight back. How protracted will depend entirely on their determination. Ideals are one thing, having a big ass bomb and knowing how to use it effectively is another.

    If all the reds striped to their underwear, women, children and farm animals included, and just sat there on the pain of death, Abhisit will have no choice but to strip himself.

    Thailand needs a mass revolt, I’m sick and tired of hearing the same old boring “I’m better than thou” stories.

    The death toll so far is nothing (per capita). More Thais die in traffic accidents on a daily basis.

    So, someone please wake me up when the real action starts!

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34. Sniper on May 16th, 2010 3:53 pm

    Dan,

    I keep seeing/hearing journos (particularly farangs)use the word “sniper,” but none seem to provide any explanations, as to them being government/army, black shirts or whatever.

    I also don’t hear any explanation as to what qualifies these guys to be “snipers.”

    And the thing which really pisses me off is that the reports are so often given as if to indicate:

    1. These are “poor innocent people” and the images of these women & children down at Ratchaprasong are regularly butted against army guys shooting, so as to infer the yai, baas & kids are being targeted.

    2. The tyre burners and Molotov cocktail throwers, are the “good guys” and the government/army are the bad guys for trying to stop these “freedom fighters”!!

    3. And not one report (I have seen) has mentioned HOW these tyres came into the “battle grounds.”

    That’s my beef!!

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35. Jaded on May 16th, 2010 4:23 pm

    Every time I see someone mentioning Thaksin as a source or cause of this violence I assume the subtext is that the coup, and by extension the army and Privy Council’s power to arbitrarily intervene to take control of Thailand is somehow reasonable. If you live in a society that is on the verge of anarchy then certainly an argument can be made that military intervention is necessary. However when the fruits of military intervention to remove the leadership of an orderly, albeit authoritarian semi-democracy leads to this sort of anarchy on the streets this seems to me to be a self-perpetuating process.

    These reactionary holders of unaccountable power, fronted by the military, claim that they “must” intervene because Thaksin is suppressing democratic freedoms. They and their proxies then limit democracy further, change the constitution, create an upper house that is half appointed to veto anything that might upset them or their supporters, suborn the legal and judicial processes and deny the opposition political rights and even, unbelievably, media access …

    Free speech has always had severe limitations in Thailand but Dan’s suggestion that things were worse under Thaksin is risible. Thaksin may have tried to destroy those elements in the media who actively opposed his authoritarian impulses but he didn’t quite manage to stifle the opposition either in parliament or in the media to the point where his opponents could only rely on local radio stations with a broadcast radius of a few km.

    The current government claims all this was necessary in the name of eradicating the influence of Thaksin and a few of his cronies … So the entire justification of the prime movers in the chain of events that has brought us to this moment is Thaksin. His malign influence now justifies the execution by sniper of unarmed civilians.

    What, I must ask, would not be justified in the name of opposing this man?

    Yes Thaksin was and continues to be a problem but the monumental self-delusion involved in blaming his influence for what has happened since the coup is quite extraordinary. It seems to imply that if Thaksin were to vanish the problems that face Thailand would vanish with him also. There would be no need to contemplate serious change as without Thaksin, Thailand would be able to return to business as usual …

    So long as Thaksin continues to have an active role in Thai politics all things are justifiable. And just as it was ok to burn alive in oil drums people who were accused of being communists in the 70s it will now be suggested that support for Thaksin or any other kind of “red” opposition to the present holders of power can only be responded to in the most cruel and inhuman ways. Thailand is now determined to revive the policies that were the making of the careers of prominent members of the Privy Council. Welcome back the 1970s!

    (BD: First time the word “risible” written on this site Jaded! Nobody applauds the death of unarmed civilians. Fact is, red leadership since the beginning welcomed civil war as an option. Now they get a taste of it. Blaming the government alone is utterly dishonest.)

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36. Jaded on May 16th, 2010 5:13 pm

    A couple of other points. StandG’s posting of a link to YouTube with a video of someone firing something is definitely not an M79 unless the ammunition now includes a large amount tell tale white smoke when it discharges. It’s probably a bamboo tube with a firework inside but its impossible to say because of the quality of the footage. That doesn’t mean that M79s are not being used by either side. But this is not what you are seeing if you are looking at this youtube video.

    The use of snipers as a deniable way for government forces to disperse demonstrators has a history in Thailand. The same sort of thing was reported in 1992. With pictures of sniper teams now on CNN (but available for several days from other sources) you really would need to be very blinkered not to realize what the deniable but still official policy now is.

    Military torture and murder are standard operational practice in regions like the south and they were encouraged in their activities under Thaksin. The real rules of engagement in Bangkok are obvious if you read New Mandala today. This won’t end even if they do disperse the demonstrators.

    But if the government goes ahead there will be a massacre and large scale angry opposition will only be deterred by the most draconian of measures. Let me go on the record on Dan’s Carte Blanche. I predict that in short order there will be a government sanctioned witch hunt for red sympathizers, large scale internment without trial and mass surveillance particularly here on the net. Facebook users should start deleting their comments. Gmail users should start deleting any compromising emails. Bloggers should prepare for their inevitable interrogation.

    (BD: If your black prophecy doesn’t happen we may agree that you overdemonize the regime.)

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37. Vichai N on May 16th, 2010 6:32 pm

    Jaded’s prophecy:

    “But if the government goes ahead there will be a massacre and large scale angry opposition will only be deterred by the most draconian of measures. Let me go on the record on Dan’s Carte Blanche. I predict that in short order there will be a government sanctioned witch hunt for red sympathizers, large scale internment without trial and mass surveillance particularly here on the net.”

    Vichai’s prophecy:

    “The usual Abhisit measured steps of encouraging the reds leadership “to get their followers out of Rachaprasong” will continue for a few more days. A FEW MORE DAYS! Nattawut/Jatuporn will AGREE hopefully to let reason get the better of their ego or rage. The massacre will be avoided thanks to Nattawut and Jatuporn … they deserve to get the credit for lives and limbs saved. Then PM Abhisit will proceed with his five-point reconciliation roadmap and will even agree to include in the negotiation table a new election/house dissolution date. Hopefully those red leaders not otherwise directly implicated with the black-clad Ronins/terror groups, or of inciting recent violent attacks, will not otherwise be detained or arrested. There will be no witch hunt of red sympathizers.”

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38. StanG on May 16th, 2010 9:39 pm

    Jaded, there are different opinions on what exactly that red guy was shooting but it was definitely NOT a bamboo tube. There are still shots from that video where the gun/launcher is seen more or less clearly.

    Reds have been manufacturing these homemade launchers themselves, remember the factory raids?

    What they are using now could be crude knock offs of the real thing.

    The “proof” that it’s not M79 video circulated everywhere is the most inconclusive evidence I’ve seen. You can’t see the launcher at all, only speculate on the amount of smoke, and some have been saying it varies with manufacturers.

    The debate is rather pointless anyway as whatever flew out of it was capable of killing people.

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39. 73 on May 16th, 2010 10:18 pm

    Gosh you have to fight off quite some dirt here poor guy.

    It’s simple really. Political science doesn’t know social upheavals during times of economic betterment. Indices were solidly pointing upwards pre-protest. Prices of rubber and rice could be better, though they’re not bad.

    Social upheavals caused by economic hardship and disparity are not born during current times, quite the opposite they gain momentum during downturns.

    The protest “coincides” with the confiscation of Thaksin’s billion. Hey the guy fights. That’s his right. Just don’t be blinded by your own wishful imagination.

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40. Vichai N on May 16th, 2010 11:12 pm

    I was surprised … when out of the blue Nattawut/Jatuporn demanded a “U.N.-brokered truce talk.” Sure the duo was shaken (but not stirred) by the General Khattiya sniper assassination attempt but seemed to have recovered their poise somewhat. Nor the bloody mayhem at Bangkok streets will stir their impervious red resolve, I thought. So what was it?

    Aha! There’s that little very recent news about “The Center for Resolution of Emergency Situation declared that 106 bank accounts have been frozen as a measure to cut support for red shirt protesters.” Money! Source of funding cut off, no money to inspire the red street martyrs to commit more mischief.

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41. Steve on May 16th, 2010 11:12 pm

    “Reds have been manufacturing these homemade launchers themselves, remember the factory raids?”

    Source for a report confirming – or even indicating – that the launcher components found in those raids had anything to do with UDD?

    (BD: Tons of investigations ongoing, but together with other raids there’s a clear bigger picture evolving. We’ll know.)

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42. Vichai N on May 16th, 2010 11:16 pm

    More chilling info about the Nattawut/Jatuporn truce offer (rejected by Abhisit BTW) from the NYT:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/world/asia/17thai.html?src=mv

    “… Nattawut Saikua also offered to withdraw militant fighters from the streets and negotiate if the government called a ceasefire and withdrew its troops. But he put forward a condition that was immediately rejected by the government, insisting that any talks be mediated by the United Nations. Mr. Nattawut’s offer suggested a closer relationship with the violent side of the protests than he had previously acknowledged …”

    Make your own conclusions.

    And more from the same NYT article about Khattiya, Thaksin and the red movement:

    ”… One protest leader who emphasized Mr. Thaksin’s importance to the protest movement was General Khattiya, who was shot Thursday inside the protester’s barricades. General Khattiya, or Seh Daeng, as he is popularly known, criticized other protest leaders for minimizing Mr. Thaksin’s role.

    “They keep telling people that this fight is not a fight for Thaksin,” he said in an interview interrupted by the shot that brought him down. “But everyone here came out to fight for Thaksin.””

    I rest my case.

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43. Jaded on May 17th, 2010 2:03 am

    StanG

    The whole point of the M79 or similar ordinance is to create a short range mini artillery alternative to the mortar. It’s quite likely that what we see in the you tube vid is home made. Maybe it isn’t made of bamboo. I saw another youtube clip showing a bamboo launcher producing a similar amount of white smoke and as historically cannons have been constructed from bamboo it seemed a possibility. But what I was pointing out was the large quantities of white smoke that are visible when it was discharged. This tell tale sign would make a weapon like this a total liability on a battlefield. Its possible that someone is making a type of ammunition that allows the enemy to immediately observe the position of the attacker but it doesn’t seem very likely to me. As for the idea that home made ammunition is likely to be capable of exploding on the target and possibly killing someone I really can’t comment. The IRA certainly had that level of home made technology and used it to great effect in their attacks on Downing Street and Heathrow. However the IRA’s home made devices were much larger mortars and not hand held tubes. Its possible that the Redshirts have manufactured their own launchers and ammunition. It’s a stretch but after the launcher factory discovery its certainly possible. But what you see is definitely not a military grade weapon. It couldn’t be. No army would contemplate using something that leaves a signature like that burst of white smoke when it fires.

    Vichai

    I really hope you are correct and I am wrong. I’ll get no satisfaction from being proved correct and frankly, I will be very happy and even grateful if my fears are proved to be unfounded.

    Dan

    I went on the record not because I want to demonize the regime but because the escalation of events seems to lead in the direction that I suggested. If the government pulls back from the military solution and negotiates with the reds then I will be glad to offer a mea culpa and proffer appropriate apologies to those who feel that the government position should be supported. Frankly I oscillate between loathing the government and hoping that I am totally wrong about them.

    The situation continues to remind me very strongly of the early stages of other civil conflicts. All that is required for the extreme solutions to seem reasonable is for the supporters of moderation to be forced by circumstances to appear to favour extremism. If the government or the red shirt leaders are to be a moderating influence then they have to step back from the actions of the extremists on both sides. Unfortunately, the government seems to be completely supportive of the free fire zone and the redshirt leaders seem to be equally unrepentant about the provocative behaviour of their militants. Reeling the rhetoric back in to a point where meaningful negotiations can take place was a painstakingly slow process in both the civil wars that I have seen and I suspect that it will be very difficult for the representatives of both sides to talk to each other after what has happened in the last few days. But yes, perhaps its still just possible. The deadline for people to leave is still there until tomorrow afternoon according to the latest reports. But so long as one side or the other need to be seen to win or die trying a successful negotiation seems unlikely.

    Am I demonizing the government. Is it any worse than previous Thai governments? Can I point to a Thai government that has been better that this lot? I don’t know but I am struck by the way that people forget important facts like the finance minister’s public statements that he doesn’t believe in democracy or the way Abhisit became member number one in a government sponsored nation wide network of informers.

    These and many other disturbing facts are edited out of the news cycle very quickly. Just because other fascist movements have behaved in a similar way doesn’t mean that the Democrats are trending towards fascism. But Thailand’s past is full of governments that I would label fascist. Of course just because the Democrat party has participated in fascist governments before, and individuals within the party like Korn are clearly not put off by fascist alternatives if they can’t gain a democratic mandate, this does not mean that the party really believes that fascism is a sustainable alternative. But would they, as they did in the past, co-operate in a fascist style “appointed” government that would be the alternative to any government that was the result of an election? I don’t know the answer to any of those questions. But if power does not come from a democratic mandate then to enforce the writ of a self proclaimed national authority will require the repression of the popular will. And there seems to be evidence that the will to do this, and the means to repress dissent are things that the democrat party leadership have actively contemplated. But maybe Thailand would be better off if the will of the “uneducate” is ignored or thwarted by a little bit of elitist tyranny?Both Socrates’ parents were members of the 30 tyrants that ruled Athens and inaugurated the most intense period of intellectual development in human thought. Perhaps, the authoritarian alternative in Thailand has yet to receive a fair trial and we should not read to much into the failures of the previous experiments. There are plenty of people out there who remember the premiership of Anand with respect. Surely Abhisit could be another Anand? I am not sure exactly what that means but the perception that the rule of technocrats would be beneficial seems to be common.

    I went on the record. I really hope I am wrong. Only time will tell. But, bearing in mind the circumstances, deleting any internet statements that might become hostages to fortune is still a good idea I think …

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44. 1976 on May 17th, 2010 2:48 am

    Please, foreigners (hope this is not politically incorrect), don’t stop feeding in your opinions, whatever they are, you reflect some things we Thais don’t know, some things we are blocked off. Most of the time I know the blog’s owner cannot feature much for fear of his/her own safety, but what are priceless are actually the opinions and comments of people who are from different cultures, political rulings, etc. So, please don’t stop feeding in. But please, no bias. We have too much of that enough from our own government. Thank you.

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45. Jaded on May 17th, 2010 3:01 am

    For the benefit of any classicists out there I will now admit that neither of Socrates’ parents came from the correct social class to have been members of the 30 tryrants (however Plato’s uncle was a member). But aspects of the Thirty tyrants rule might offer an analogy that would be applicable to Thailand’s future so I would continue to direct your attention at this interesting piece of ancient history.

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46. GeGee on May 17th, 2010 6:00 am

    Just read the last couple of posts commenting about Nattawut’s U.N proposal.

    I’m not sure if it’s related but that new lawyer Thaksin employed, quietly turned up in BKK yesterday.

    I saw him interviewed on a satellite TV channel.

    Maybe the government sees the U.N. involvement as a trap set by this guy.

    But maybe this guy will also help bring out the truth concerning Thaksin’s involvement.

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47. Vichai N on May 17th, 2010 8:48 am

    I read the TIME article “Protest Imperils Bangkok’s “Red Shirt” Children” (see BD link).

    I had made several repeated comments elsewhere that many of those very poor village old, women, children (entire families even as pointed out by the TIME article) were trucked in for the long trek to Bangkok by the red leaders. In a forgotten news item weeks ago, there were dozens of such villagers from Lampang who asked government help (money) so they could return home because the red leaders who brought them in won’t. In effect there are very likely hundreds, if not thousands, of the old, women and children right now at Rachaprasong who are trapped (hostages??) because the Red leaders won’t provide the buses nor the money for the return trip to their villages.

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48. Marit@Th on May 17th, 2010 10:04 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVLHnBsTl9s

    Just listen to the sound of gunfire at Din Daeng area (yesterday I think) going on and on and on … like a war zone. Definitely some very heavily armed violent group engaging the military from the sounds of gunfire.

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49. Blue "Snipers in Diapers" on May 17th, 2010 8:20 pm

    It seems some people do not want to admit the military is using snipers and asks for “proof.” Please … get real. They may be kids manipulated by their fears and inculcated with propaganda from above but they are killers, naive or not. Ignorance is not an excuse when breaking the law, nor should it be when killing in cold blood for abstract and jaded convictions.

    Besides videos on the internet clearing showing military men in uniform and the journalist behind them stating they are snipers shooting into the crowds below, there are other “proofs.”

    The logical proof is that almost three dozen dead according to official numbers and all but ONE is a civilian.

    THE MILITARY HAS SAID SO!!!

    I think by now everyone will have either read or heard repeated the military stated they were setting up sniper positions.

    And the whole spiel about these are reds killing reds because they are old school style terrorists intent on blaming it on the opposition is a load of crap.

    There simply is no polite way of putting it when people are dying in the streets …

    PS: I would like to add on a personal note someone from my wife’s family was shot dead during this last week. I cannot of course give the details out of fear (another indicator about what kind of society we live in) but this is “gospel truth.”

    And the other gospel truth is this man had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism or violence of any kind. he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with his supportive red shirt … while doing his job.

    (BD: Nobody denying army using snipers. They’re not denying it. Only reds denying they use also heavier weapons. Even though we know there’s no denying.)

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50. Blue "Snipers" on May 17th, 2010 10:43 pm

    BD I think there is an essential difference between a military whose strategy it is to set up snipers with the intention of killing as official policy, and the possibility of a small faction of reds using bigger than usual firecrackers.

    I have always thought (and stated) that Seh Daeng and his violent bent gang was the worse thing that could happen to the reds.

    The reds needed to distance themselves as much as possible from any form of violence. All violence always plays into the hands of the oppressor, as we witness now.

    Only through nonviolence and nonviolent acts of civil disobedience can the people hope to achieve their aims.

    As disgusting as the assassination of Seh Daeng was, in a sense it was for the better. Had there been a major confrontation and a larger scale confrontation resulted there would be even more dead than now.

    But again, that in no way excuses state violence now. The people will be defeated, that is almost certain. We must hope they re-group and find ways of confronting the injustices that will in future circumvent acts that the state can use to again oppress them.

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51. GeGee on May 18th, 2010 7:31 am

    “But again, that in no way excuses state violence now. The people will be defeated, that is almost certain. We must hope they re-group and find ways of confronting the injustices that will in future circumvent acts that the state can use to again oppress them.”

    Blue I agree 100% with your comment, here.

    It is just a pity the red leaders don’t seem to understand this. What is preventing them from pulling back. Lose the battle, win the war. Takes longer maybe, but the results could be much better for everyone. I mean ALL Thais all 65 million.

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52. StanG on May 18th, 2010 11:04 am

    GeGee, red leaders understand this very well, they just don’t want to sacrifice their freedom and, allegedly, great source of income.

    Unlike the rank and file protesters they won’t have a chance to fight another day.

    I think Abhisit also doesn’t want to sacrifice his own political career by letting them off scott free.

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53. Roger Ramjet on May 18th, 2010 5:49 pm

    Just a quick comment about the RPG attack at the hotel and the video of the M79 on YouTube.

    As an Australian infantry soldier with tours of Malaya and Vietnam and as an ex-infantry instructor I can assure you all that an RPG does a lot more damage than the photos I’ve seen of the hotel.

    Secondly the video of the M79 is not of an M79. M79s do not have pistol grips on the stock.

    If you people are going comment, then please keep it to your area of expertise, the situation is bad enough with the “dogs of war” being unleashed without inane comments.

    (BD: It’s also not gunfire alone used for the hotel attack. What weaponry you suggest?)

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54. Roger Ramjet on May 18th, 2010 6:43 pm

    Looking at the photos I would say it was an M79 used on the hotel, but I would have to physically see the hotel and even though I live in Bangkok I’ll take a rain check on that. M79s only travel 300 metres at the outside and have a kill radius of five metres. The HE (high explosive) round of M79 doesn’t discriminate against friend of foe once it has armed itself after it has left the barrel and travelled 15 metres. Not the sort of weapon to use in an urban environment.

    Personally after watching the videos and the start of the so-called firefight I would say it might have been an AD (accidental discharge). I have never found the Thai army (except for special forces) to be well trained and disciplined, which is shown and heard in many videos when the sniper is told by the spotter, “the target is down” yet he continues to shoot at anything he thinks moves.

    Strange things happen to soldiers during combat, especially those that have no combat experience. One thing, up until the last few days I have never seen is soldiers intentionally murdering their own unarmed civilians and I am appalled not only by that, but the lies, lies and more lies coming from the Thai government.

    As I said earlier, the “dogs of war” have been unleashed and are massacring a civilian population. The Thai army commander told the government this would happen and that was his reason for refusing a “lawful order” and telling the government it was a political conflict.

    I hope, after all this is over there will be a day of reckoning at a war crimes tribunal, but this is Thailand, so there won’t be.

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55. Vichai N on May 18th, 2010 6:45 pm

    Definitely a huge slingshot is the weapon of choice by those devious non-violent reds!

    (No other explanation will suffice for those maimed and killed by the huge slingshot mistaken for an M79/RPG.)

    BTW I was also in ROTC in case somebody asks.

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56. Steve on May 18th, 2010 8:45 pm

    Roger Ramjet – to save you considering the inspection trip, here’s part of Bangkok Post’s report of the Dusit attack:

    “Pol Col Chartchai Worakul, Thung Mahamek police chief, confirmed on Monday, that three M79 grenades were fired at the 14th, 22nd floors and in front of Dusit Thani hotel on Silom road at around midnight on Sunday,

    The grenade fell in front of the hotel failed to explode.”

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178162/dusit-thani-hotel-closed-at-noon

    No mention there – or in The Nation’s report – of who was responsible. I guess they’re slipping – and certainly need to stock up on more “second sight.”

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57. StanG on May 18th, 2010 11:00 pm

    “Secondly the video of the M79 is not of an M79. M79s do not have pistol grips on the stock.”

    The stock could have been sawn off for easy concealment, assuming the launcher wasn’t a knock off from one of the factories the authorities raided a couple of months ago.

    In that case it could have been made to look like anything.

    It doesn’t look like a homemade fireworks launcher either, those contraptions are extremely rude by comparison and don’t have any kind of grips.

    I don’t know what it was but someone has been shooting “M79″s for months.

    Nick Nostitz has seen a guy hiding what Nick called a grenade launcher under his clothes.

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58. Roger Ramjet on May 19th, 2010 7:55 am

    StanG

    Please read what I wrote. The M79 doesn’t have a pistol grip at all, end of story. The video of the black shirt firing the “M79″ had a pistol grip on the stock. I can’t recall the army designation for the weapon, but it is a flare gun and the M79 HE round is too large to fit in the barrel.

    I am commenting purely from a professional soldiers viewpoint. In other words I’m trying to stop the bullshit from both sides.

    Rather like the Bangkok Post page 1 this morning; the photos are of a boy with a homemade “bomb” with a samurai sword stuck down the back of his jacket. Not only does the boy nearly blow-up himself, but what good does a sword do against bullets?

    If these are the black shirts, then the army hasn’t anything to fear.

    Quality comment? 0  0

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