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	<title>Comments on: Dr. Saul: Ratchada&#8217;s GNP Factor</title>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3848</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3848</guid>
		<description>DungaDung:

Please show a little respect. Are you saying that a Yesbel Laureate Ph.D. economist who graduated from LSE and is famous around the world for having had a hand in the design of the AIG Hedge Fund and Derivatives Strategy is mistaken in his analysis!?

What are your so-called &quot;qualifications&quot; ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DungaDung:</p>
<p>Please show a little respect. Are you saying that a Yesbel Laureate Ph.D. economist who graduated from LSE and is famous around the world for having had a hand in the design of the AIG Hedge Fund and Derivatives Strategy is mistaken in his analysis!?</p>
<p>What are your so-called &#8220;qualifications&#8221; &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DungaDung</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3847</link>
		<dc:creator>DungaDung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3847</guid>
		<description>Did he get his Ph.D. in Khao San? He claims that 3.6 million Chinese are processed through a 50 story whorehouse in Ratchada, when there are not even anywhere near 3.6 million Chinese entering Thailand per year. Bit over 1 million, almost half of whom are female.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did he get his Ph.D. in Khao San? He claims that 3.6 million Chinese are processed through a 50 story whorehouse in Ratchada, when there are not even anywhere near 3.6 million Chinese entering Thailand per year. Bit over 1 million, almost half of whom are female.</p>
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		<title>By: Students to Analyze Ratchada's Entertainment Complexes &#38; Their Contribution to Thailand's GNP - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3846</link>
		<dc:creator>Students to Analyze Ratchada's Entertainment Complexes &#38; Their Contribution to Thailand's GNP - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3846</guid>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3844</guid>
		<description>All fair comments Chris. I was focusing my remarks on the developed world in response to Bangkok Dan&#039;s comment about more or less open sex slavery in Western cities. I don&#039;t think you can compare Rachada to Las Vegas but who knows what opportunities may arise in the next decade to faciliate that sort of transition. It&#039;s definitely &quot;the&quot; medium term property play in BKK for insiders ... You know who got caught out for precisely this reason. And your point about other prominent public figures who are involved in the sex industry is completely reasonable. I can&#039;t even claim any moral high ground myself here as I have stayed more than once in the Davis hotel and even indirectly benefited from the owner&#039;s generosity to his employees in one instance. Clearly the money generated by the sex industry is so enormous that it would be impossible to live a normal existence here and claim any kind of moral high ground. The captain of industry  in question has a popular mandate based not just on his wealth but also on his history exposing Police corruption and speaking plainly on other issues. I wouldn&#039;t vote for him but obvious quite a lot of people did and that makes his presence in parliament entirely reasonable. (It gives him immunity from prosecution too but if it&#039;s good enough for Berlusconi ...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All fair comments Chris. I was focusing my remarks on the developed world in response to Bangkok Dan&#8217;s comment about more or less open sex slavery in Western cities. I don&#8217;t think you can compare Rachada to Las Vegas but who knows what opportunities may arise in the next decade to faciliate that sort of transition. It&#8217;s definitely &#8220;the&#8221; medium term property play in BKK for insiders &#8230; You know who got caught out for precisely this reason. And your point about other prominent public figures who are involved in the sex industry is completely reasonable. I can&#8217;t even claim any moral high ground myself here as I have stayed more than once in the Davis hotel and even indirectly benefited from the owner&#8217;s generosity to his employees in one instance. Clearly the money generated by the sex industry is so enormous that it would be impossible to live a normal existence here and claim any kind of moral high ground. The captain of industry  in question has a popular mandate based not just on his wealth but also on his history exposing Police corruption and speaking plainly on other issues. I wouldn&#8217;t vote for him but obvious quite a lot of people did and that makes his presence in parliament entirely reasonable. (It gives him immunity from prosecution too but if it&#8217;s good enough for Berlusconi &#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3843</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 05:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3843</guid>
		<description>Re: Jaded&#039;s comments: 

I would say that by far the largest commercial sex industry in the world in sheer volume and numbers is in India where it exists mainly to serve the indiginous population plus Muslim visitors from the various Islamic Arab states and Iran. The second largest by sheer volume and numbers is probably China. The third largest is probably Brazil.

In terms of actual percentages of the population involved, I would guess there are many African countries with much higher percentages than Thailand, and a much more brutalized treatment of the commercial sex workers themselves.

In terms of Southeast Asia, all the SE countries have a large commercial sex sector, even Burma and Vietnam, even squeaky clean Singapore and Muslim Malaysia and Indonesia.

In terms of the most callous and brutal area of this business, it is undoubtedly at the bottom and the most desperate levels that the rawest trafficking and worst mistreatment is most prevalent, the little sex villages full of trafficked minors in Cambodia being probably the most horrendous example.

In the overall world situation, the Ratchada district in Bangkok and especially, the hi-end entertainment complexes, (where there is probably very little if any direct trafficking involved, and there is considerable personal freedom in terms of choice of establishment and the option to choose another means to earn money), is no where near being the worst of the worst and is, in fact, not totally dissimilar from the U.S. gigantic entertainment district called Las Vegas.

That having been said, yes, I agree that it is very curious and hard to comprehend how a person whose family is one of the major players in Ratchada and who personally managed one of the largest Ratchada establishments, could be so publicly appointed to a high position in a national government and be put forward by a relatively large country economically to represent it in its commercial dealings with other countries.

But then on the other hand, an even larger player in the Ratchada district recently received quite a few votes in his run for the governorship of Bangkok and is presently a Member of the Thai parliament in good standing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Jaded&#8217;s comments: </p>
<p>I would say that by far the largest commercial sex industry in the world in sheer volume and numbers is in India where it exists mainly to serve the indiginous population plus Muslim visitors from the various Islamic Arab states and Iran. The second largest by sheer volume and numbers is probably China. The third largest is probably Brazil.</p>
<p>In terms of actual percentages of the population involved, I would guess there are many African countries with much higher percentages than Thailand, and a much more brutalized treatment of the commercial sex workers themselves.</p>
<p>In terms of Southeast Asia, all the SE countries have a large commercial sex sector, even Burma and Vietnam, even squeaky clean Singapore and Muslim Malaysia and Indonesia.</p>
<p>In terms of the most callous and brutal area of this business, it is undoubtedly at the bottom and the most desperate levels that the rawest trafficking and worst mistreatment is most prevalent, the little sex villages full of trafficked minors in Cambodia being probably the most horrendous example.</p>
<p>In the overall world situation, the Ratchada district in Bangkok and especially, the hi-end entertainment complexes, (where there is probably very little if any direct trafficking involved, and there is considerable personal freedom in terms of choice of establishment and the option to choose another means to earn money), is no where near being the worst of the worst and is, in fact, not totally dissimilar from the U.S. gigantic entertainment district called Las Vegas.</p>
<p>That having been said, yes, I agree that it is very curious and hard to comprehend how a person whose family is one of the major players in Ratchada and who personally managed one of the largest Ratchada establishments, could be so publicly appointed to a high position in a national government and be put forward by a relatively large country economically to represent it in its commercial dealings with other countries.</p>
<p>But then on the other hand, an even larger player in the Ratchada district recently received quite a few votes in his run for the governorship of Bangkok and is presently a Member of the Thai parliament in good standing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3842</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3842</guid>
		<description>I am not well informed on the comparative statistical evidence concerning other countries commercial sex sectors. On the other hand I have travelled a bit and lived in several countries with risque reputations and outside of Asia I have never seen anything that comes close to the scale of this business in Thailand. Its possible to make the argument that &quot;entertainment&quot; zones are enormous in Japan, &quot;policed&quot; by organized crime with the tacit agreement of the real police and the government. The ruling party maintains links with organized crime and on a local level there is a policy of tacit cooperation between the criminal gangs who control entertainment districts and the police. All that said I think the idea of appointing a minister whose business is prostitution might be quite controversial in Japan.

I&#039;ve never heard of industrial scale sex slavery receiving police and government approval in a Western country. Large brothels in places like Germany, Holland or Spain are common enough and are the destination of trafficking gangs from further east. But there are at least some protections in place for sex workers and public policies of observation and intervention. I&#039;m sure that the toleration of these dirty businesses is something necessary and inevitable but I am equally sure that the appointment of a public figure like the minister of commerce with a background in such an activity would be impossible. I feel reasonably certain that kind of appointment would result in an immediate outcry  in any of these countries that have policies of toleration. That&#039;s where Thailand is so different. I can&#039;t think of anywhere that has a lower standard of ethical behavior in public office than this country. It&#039;s not a trivial issue to condone, support and encourage human trafficking by appointing an officially sanctioned public figure who is involved in this business.

Politicians in many countries have frighteningly low standards. If there is a democratic process then these degenerates know that there are limits to what they can or cannot do in office. When they go beyond a certain point there is a public outcry. I don&#039;t blame the politicians. Their worst excesses can be limited though. What&#039;s absolutely disgraceful here is the degenerate attitudes and indifference of the people who support the political party that feels free to do this. If, as seems to be the case, the supporters of the Democrat party and its PAD allies are the the people with the privileges and education and resources to know better then I have no hope at all for Thailand. Beyond the protection of their own privileges these people don&#039;t seem to care. No wonder a deeply flawed figure like the deposed prime minister can continue to enjoy widespread support. With the government openly involved in dirty businesses, and the Isoc&#039;s power to behave brutally newly enhanced by their enthusiastic Democrat allies, Thaksin and the red shirts must seem like the only hope of political recognition decent people really have. I feel the bile rising in my throat again ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not well informed on the comparative statistical evidence concerning other countries commercial sex sectors. On the other hand I have travelled a bit and lived in several countries with risque reputations and outside of Asia I have never seen anything that comes close to the scale of this business in Thailand. Its possible to make the argument that &#8220;entertainment&#8221; zones are enormous in Japan, &#8220;policed&#8221; by organized crime with the tacit agreement of the real police and the government. The ruling party maintains links with organized crime and on a local level there is a policy of tacit cooperation between the criminal gangs who control entertainment districts and the police. All that said I think the idea of appointing a minister whose business is prostitution might be quite controversial in Japan.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never heard of industrial scale sex slavery receiving police and government approval in a Western country. Large brothels in places like Germany, Holland or Spain are common enough and are the destination of trafficking gangs from further east. But there are at least some protections in place for sex workers and public policies of observation and intervention. I&#8217;m sure that the toleration of these dirty businesses is something necessary and inevitable but I am equally sure that the appointment of a public figure like the minister of commerce with a background in such an activity would be impossible. I feel reasonably certain that kind of appointment would result in an immediate outcry  in any of these countries that have policies of toleration. That&#8217;s where Thailand is so different. I can&#8217;t think of anywhere that has a lower standard of ethical behavior in public office than this country. It&#8217;s not a trivial issue to condone, support and encourage human trafficking by appointing an officially sanctioned public figure who is involved in this business.</p>
<p>Politicians in many countries have frighteningly low standards. If there is a democratic process then these degenerates know that there are limits to what they can or cannot do in office. When they go beyond a certain point there is a public outcry. I don&#8217;t blame the politicians. Their worst excesses can be limited though. What&#8217;s absolutely disgraceful here is the degenerate attitudes and indifference of the people who support the political party that feels free to do this. If, as seems to be the case, the supporters of the Democrat party and its PAD allies are the the people with the privileges and education and resources to know better then I have no hope at all for Thailand. Beyond the protection of their own privileges these people don&#8217;t seem to care. No wonder a deeply flawed figure like the deposed prime minister can continue to enjoy widespread support. With the government openly involved in dirty businesses, and the Isoc&#8217;s power to behave brutally newly enhanced by their enthusiastic Democrat allies, Thaksin and the red shirts must seem like the only hope of political recognition decent people really have. I feel the bile rising in my throat again &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: BangkokDan</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3841</link>
		<dc:creator>BangkokDan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3841</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;TC&lt;/em&gt; we don&#039;t do an April Fools&#039; Day piece this year, but  there is still &lt;a href=&quot;http://absolutelybangkok.com/april-fools-day-defense-kit/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last year&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s - keep us posted if you see one!

Cannot but agree with you &lt;em&gt;Jaded&lt;/em&gt;. But then again, what&#039;s more or less played out in the open along Ratchada and such is not inexistent in other cities around the world. On the contrary, I doubt there is less more or less open human slavery in major Western cities.

Thailand at least manages to humanize (read: trivialize) the whole misery, as fatalistic this may sound.

&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:absolutelyBangkok@gmail.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BangkokDan&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>TC</em> we don&#8217;t do an April Fools&#8217; Day piece this year, but  there is still <a href="http://absolutelybangkok.com/april-fools-day-defense-kit/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">last year</a>&#8216;s &#8211; keep us posted if you see one!</p>
<p>Cannot but agree with you <em>Jaded</em>. But then again, what&#8217;s more or less played out in the open along Ratchada and such is not inexistent in other cities around the world. On the contrary, I doubt there is less more or less open human slavery in major Western cities.</p>
<p>Thailand at least manages to humanize (read: trivialize) the whole misery, as fatalistic this may sound.</p>
<p><a href="mailto:absolutelyBangkok@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">BangkokDan</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3840</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3840</guid>
		<description>Your guest writer&#039;s article must have been composed before the commerce minister&#039;s recently announced tour of the neighboring countries who provide many of this sector&#039;s service workers. Surely this tour must be seen as part of a government policy of maintaining the free market in this kind of labour. For this business to continue to serve its clients at low rates it is vital to the national interest that the pipelines funneling workers into these complexes in Bangkok are kept open. Unlike some of the multinational companies who are also enjoying the low wage regime there is no need to worry about repatriated profits in this case. In the U.S. for example, such guest workers might actually remit a considerable part of their earnings to their home countries but, under the particular working conditions of the large scale enterprises here, there is remarkably little leakage of revenue into the workers&#039; pockets. Just like diamond miners in his own South Africa, a strict search and seizure policy ensures that little cash goes unaccounted for.
 
Frankly it makes me want to puke. 

The desperately sad thing about this is that most Democrat Party supporting middle class Thais that I know simply don&#039;t see anything wrong, or every disturbing about having a commerce minister with a background in an industry that exists as an unnatural breeding ground for sex slavery, human trafficing or whatever else you like to call it. But it&#039;s not just the poverty stricken, trafficked prostitutes that don&#039;t merit any mercy or consideration. It&#039;s anyone outside of that golden circle of privilege centered in Bangkok. The Poseidon minister is a perfectly logical reflection of the disgusting attitudes that prevail amongst large numbers of the middle class who support this government. The prime minister is a perfect medium through which to channel this indifference. Witness his performance on CNN when presented with evidence of  the mass murder of Burmese refugees by the Thai military. He&#039;s part of a generation of Thai politicians who have learned to be plausibly pleasant in difficult situations while remaining indifferent to any kind of moral and ethical standard. As you pointed out, the Buddhist rationalizations that accompany this rhetoric suggest that this will not change any time soon ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your guest writer&#8217;s article must have been composed before the commerce minister&#8217;s recently announced tour of the neighboring countries who provide many of this sector&#8217;s service workers. Surely this tour must be seen as part of a government policy of maintaining the free market in this kind of labour. For this business to continue to serve its clients at low rates it is vital to the national interest that the pipelines funneling workers into these complexes in Bangkok are kept open. Unlike some of the multinational companies who are also enjoying the low wage regime there is no need to worry about repatriated profits in this case. In the U.S. for example, such guest workers might actually remit a considerable part of their earnings to their home countries but, under the particular working conditions of the large scale enterprises here, there is remarkably little leakage of revenue into the workers&#8217; pockets. Just like diamond miners in his own South Africa, a strict search and seizure policy ensures that little cash goes unaccounted for.</p>
<p>Frankly it makes me want to puke. </p>
<p>The desperately sad thing about this is that most Democrat Party supporting middle class Thais that I know simply don&#8217;t see anything wrong, or every disturbing about having a commerce minister with a background in an industry that exists as an unnatural breeding ground for sex slavery, human trafficing or whatever else you like to call it. But it&#8217;s not just the poverty stricken, trafficked prostitutes that don&#8217;t merit any mercy or consideration. It&#8217;s anyone outside of that golden circle of privilege centered in Bangkok. The Poseidon minister is a perfectly logical reflection of the disgusting attitudes that prevail amongst large numbers of the middle class who support this government. The prime minister is a perfect medium through which to channel this indifference. Witness his performance on CNN when presented with evidence of  the mass murder of Burmese refugees by the Thai military. He&#8217;s part of a generation of Thai politicians who have learned to be plausibly pleasant in difficult situations while remaining indifferent to any kind of moral and ethical standard. As you pointed out, the Buddhist rationalizations that accompany this rhetoric suggest that this will not change any time soon &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ThaiCrisis</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/dr-saul-ratchadas-gnp-factor/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator>ThaiCrisis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=4424#comment-3839</guid>
		<description>Nice ... You&#039;re too early for April Fools&#039; Day! ;-)
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: To introduce &quot;Doctor Saul&quot; as an &lt;b&gt;economist&lt;/b&gt; who worked ... for &lt;b&gt;AIG&lt;/b&gt; ... that was enough to blow up the cover from the very first line. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice &#8230; You&#8217;re too early for April Fools&#8217; Day! <img src='http://absolutelybangkok.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
<br />
Note: To introduce &#8220;Doctor Saul&#8221; as an <b>economist</b> who worked &#8230; for <b>AIG</b> &#8230; that was enough to blow up the cover from the very first line. <img src='http://absolutelybangkok.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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