Elite Goes Anti-Democrat

16 Responses to “Elite Goes Anti-Democrat”

1. Kevin Little on December 9th, 2009 7.33 pm

   Instead of asking the government to impose regulations on the whole of Bangkok, which will undoubtedly lead to higher prices for apartments, how about letting land owners in each neighborhood decide on their own building codes.

   This will also mean that land owners in other areas of Bangkok who can gather enough support in their areas for high-rise buildings won’t be tied down by regulations imposed for a vocal minority in a completely different neighborhood.

2. Wrigley on December 9th, 2009 10.18 pm

   Loved the bit about the foreign speculators (as if there is no such thing as a Thai speculator – give me a break:

   “It is also worth noting that all these high-risers have remained mostly empty because there is no longer any buying interest. Former rich foreigners can no longer afford to buy properties anywhere for speculation!”

   IMHO, the country would probably be better off if they handed it over to a foreigner for running, say by a Scandanavian country. In such an event, her problem of “heavy all-day traffic jams (short cut from Soi 39 to Soi 49), deep floods after heavy rains, burst water pipes and clogged drainage, blackouts from exploded electricity mains, not to mention the thundering cement and construction trucks that could hardly squeezed their way into our soi but have managed to shake and break most of the houses that they passed by!” would not likely be an issue.

3. Steve on December 10th, 2009 5.29 am

   I don’t understand how the situation being projected for Suk Soi 39 is any different than many other parts of the city. Considering the layout and development of Bangkok I am surprised to learn that there are any construction regulations in the city. It does keep things interesting though

4. stefan on December 10th, 2009 5.32 am

   One wonders who switched off the lights on Democracy Monument? (2 am, December 10th) The perennial floodlights that light up this fascistic looking and insincere homage to democracy went completely dark after the multi-billion baht regal celebrations dismantled and moved from this circle to make a begrudging way for the Constitution Day acknowledgement by the UDD. In any other language this action would be classified as spiteful, catty, childish … BD, apologies for the detour from Phrom Phong to Ratanakosin …

5. Rich on December 10th, 2009 7.45 am

   “In any other language this action would be classified as spiteful, catty, childish (…)”

   Yes, but as a Thai of my acquaintance is fond of saying; when you deal with Thais you are dealing with children. Thais never seem to mature past the emotional age of a 10-year-old in the West. It’s why they desperately need some one person to identify with.

   IMHO, the country would probably be better off if they handed it over to a foreigner for running, say by a Scandanavian country.
   Yep. Almost any country would do. Even Laos would probably do a better job of managing the country. I see that when Thailand offered Laos some help in organising the SEA Games, the polite response was a (probably terrified) “no thanks!”

   Comes to something when even Laos doesn’t want or need the “older brother” approach of the Thais. Thais really have alienated themselves in the world, they don’t have any friends left.

6. michael on December 10th, 2009 2.15 pm

   Wrigley, you left internal plumbing out of the blacklist. I’m so sick of lavatories that are clogged up with toilet-paper (why can’t the plumbers here do lavatories that can handle toilet tissue, for Dog’s sake!), washbasins and single urinals that don’t have drainage pipes (piss splashed all over one’s shoes & trouser cuffs), and shower recesses that flood because the drainage hole is either clogged or positioned at the high end of the floor slope. And “bum guns” are a great invention that we should emulate in the west – but quite useless if they only trickle. Oh yes, and wash basins & bathtubs with plugs that don’t fit – or no plugs. Do they have Building Inspectors for new buildings & alterations here? If so, I suppose they take tea money, like everyone else. Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!

   (I feel MUCH better now that I’ve done my Bathroom Howl!)

7. Thai on December 10th, 2009 7.21 pm

   I suspect that K. Vongthip’s outrage stems from a “not in my backyard” mentality rather than any real concern about the problems listed in the letter.

   @Rich: If you feel so repulsed by Thais and Thailand, why don’t you just go home and leave us to deal with each other our own way?

8. Rich on December 10th, 2009 9.04 pm

   Hi Thai.

   I just knew someone would come up with that old crap. Try to understand that we live in the 21st century, where internationalism counts, and this whole argument of “this is our land” is about as sensible as 2 fleas arguing about which one owns the dog.

   As it happens, I don’t live in Thailand – but I enjoy coming to Thailand sometimes. Also it isn’t the Thai people I dislike, it is some of them – the stupider ones if you like. The ones who say “foreigners go home if you don’t like us being stupid,” that kind of thing.

   In reality, I would truly love you to leave you to sort it out in your own way, I just wish you would get on with it. But you don’t – do you? You just talk about it, which is all you are really good for. Talking about it. This is what you call “Thai-style” but what everyone else calls half-witted. Sort of a metaphor for everything that is wrong in Thailand really.

   Try not to forget that in the time you have been “dealing with each other,” Japan has become a world power, so has Germany, so has the U.K., so has South Korea. While Thailand has remained backward and under-developed. So it rather seems that you aren’t very good at dealing with each other now, doesn’t it? Or perhaps it is just good at talking and not doing.

   I would have thought you were interested in improving yourselves, but it seems not. And then you wonder why you don’t have any friends in the international community.

   Have a nice day though … do some nice talking.

9. Leopold on December 10th, 2009 11.50 pm

   Rich, there is no such place where everything is perfect. Even those developed countries you lined up to prove your point have their owned inherent defects. Today, I saw a report regarding debt-to-gdp ratios of Japan, England, and Germany. Boy, aren’t they in trouble? Something can go terribly wrong in one of these countries, and it won’t be any prettier than Thailand.

   It is also nice to see you do understand the whole concept of not generalising people, but it is just inconsistent with saying the whole nation can’t run a thing.

   Some Thais are imbeciles, I agree, but so are some impatient farangs. Keep in mind that complaining is fine, but insults are just vulgar and counterproductive.

10. Rich on December 11th, 2009 7.52 am

    @Leopold:

    “Rich, there is no such place where everything is perfect. Even those developed countries you lined up to prove your point have their owned inherent defects. Today, I saw a report regarding debt-to-gdp ratios of Japan, England, and Germany. Boy, aren’t they in trouble? Something can go terribly wrong in one of these countries, and it won’t be any prettier than Thailand.”

    Agreed. To a point. But they are different problems. It is important to understand that while no land is perfect, the imperfections are not equal.

    For example, it is not valid to say that because some MP’s in UK are corrupt, then it excuses the altogether different level of corruption in Thailand. Or, to put it another way, I do not have to be Thai before I can observe that Thailand is a backward country populated by backward people who think they are superior because that is what they have been taught to think.

    People are generally willing to learn from other people, unless they think they know it all already. Human evolution is largely based on this ability, and yet the Thai ‘pooyays’ are locked into some mediaeval nightmare, and have not yet woken up to the fact that nobody counts themselves as friends of Thailand, though this does appear slowly to be dawning on them. It is entirely because of the way Thais have behaved in the past.

    Slowly but surely, the dinosaurs are awakening to a world that no longer has any use for dinosaurs.

    It is important to remember that for a country to want to strut the world stage, it is becoming for them to have contributed something worthwhile to the world. The book of Thai high-achievers is very thin, and of course, this is related to the prevailing levels of competence and education in Thailand as well as the culture that has been carefully built for them by someone else.

    Without wishing to embark on a critique of Thai culture, it seems clear (to me at least) that it is a millstone around the neck of Thais, a culture based on fear and feudalism, in which progress is always secondary to stroking someone else’s ego in the hope that they may be persuaded not to follow their natural inclinations and hurt you to demonstrate their superiority and power. Obnoxious though that may seem, this is the unpleasant reality at the core of Thai culture.

    Of course, national characteristics (if such a thing exists, which believe it does), are an aggregation, a statistical thing which has no meaning when applied to individuals. Many Thais I know are charming and wonderful people, but then I don’t associate with people who are not charming and wonderful people, so it is easy for me to conclude that all Thais are charming and wonderful by a process of extension. And so I did, until I emerged from the tourist’s delusion, as many ex-pats do – sooner or later.

    Also, bear in mind that one person’s insult is just another person’s unacceptable fact. It is clear that in general, the perception of the national characteristics of Thais is that they are unintelligent, incompetent and dishonest. This is so widely held a perception among visitors and foreign nationals (including at least one former ambassador to Thailand), that it cannot credibly be contra-argued. To a person who agrees, this is an astute observation. To a person who does not agree, it is an insult. In both cases, the difference exists within the observer and not within the commentator, and so one should reasonably question the motive of the observer as well as the commentator. But of course we don’t do this, do we?

    What distinguishes an insult from an objective though unpalatable reality is surely an intent to cause offence. On that basis, I have not insulted anyone and everything I have offered as a comment can be sustained. Inconvenient and unacceptable to some though they may be.

    “Vulgar and unproductive” is really just a figleaf – a form of words which attempts to justify not wanting to accept something which is indisputably true but not altogether agreeable to hear.

11. stefan on December 11th, 2009 9.21 am

    If you remove the intellect and simply take in the visual and odiferous, the overdeveloped Sukhumvit ghetto’s flooding sewers and newly erected skeleton high rises tell much about the lofty ambitions that are based on foundations that are unbearable and cannot be absorbed or contained. The daily metaphors of a failing Babylon are stark and in your face, regardless of the pretentions of figleafs and ostentatious copy unproofed onto giant billboards.

    Is all that incessant 24 hour drilling and underpinning based on tangible economic progress or is it a mirage driven by the illusion of endless sexual pumping that this neighborhood uses as its unspoken mascot?

12. Rich on December 11th, 2009 9.35 am

    @stefan:

    Nicely put. Nice metaphor about metaphor. A metametaphor perhaps?

    Stark and in your face indeed. For those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

13. Leopold on December 11th, 2009 11.22 pm

    @Rich: Is perception an indisputable and “unacceptable” fact?

    I certainly have no right to claim that I understand your experience with Thais (both pleasant and unpleasant ones) but might just be able to slightly relate to it.

    MY world view is that it can be quite volatile. I just have to use carrots and sticks. Still, I could be wrong in a longer term.

    Please note that “counterproductive” is the word I used.

    If a well-deserve verbal waking-up-slap-in-the-face is what you’re trying to achieve and that your “unacceptable fact” is indeed a fact, can you expect aggression (of some form, not necessarily physical), even if by “unintelligent, incompetent and dishonest” people, to be quite nasty? History and Thai Rath front page suggest me that the answer is yes. Who would know how far our petty discussion could go?

14. Rich on December 12th, 2009 7.51 am

    @Leopold: Our perception is our reality – always.

    Aggression does not interest me, it is always an unconscious response to a threat. Unintelligent, incompetent and dishonest people appear to be more prone to it but then that should not surprise us.

    Nasty does not interest me, we can all be nasty,

    Petty does not interest me, I don’t really have the time for small-talk.

    Not sure what you are trying to achieve – doubtless you have some kind of a purpose so I will leave you to get on and achieve it.

15. KV on December 12th, 2009 11.59 pm

    Long discussions here so I add only short thing: I chuckled on the letter comment on BTS capacity. Totally absurd as the BTS is hardly ever anywhere close to full even in rush hour times there is plenty of room compared to any other country with mass transit systems like that (examples from Japan and China). Also BTS has only a few few cars per train currently so that is also something that could be easily fixed in such odd situation that the number of users of BTS would rise in the long run (which might happen if only they were able to build more lines and stops but we all know that wont happen as long as Thais will live in Thailand.)

16. Rich on December 13th, 2009 11.37 am

    @KV, fully agree. Full at peak times and near empty otherwise suggests a scheduling/capacity management problem.

Leave a Reply