Farang Just Don’t Get It

I cannot help but feel astonished at the fact that many foreigners in Thailand quietly side with the Samak government - not meaning that they like any of them -, whereas most Bangkokian Thais condemn the Samak government downright instinctively, naming “corruption” and “bad” as the main reasons without being able to list proper arguments and facts.

As if a constitutional state and the rule of law never ever existed in Thailand, the rampant current mob anarchy is considered by many Thais as non-mentionable if not legitimate, whereas an unarmed policeman trying to do his job is a brute. And corrupt they’re all anyway. Why is the farang so much less understanding. Are foreigners, representatives of the old world, reactionaries by nature?

What do expats not see what Thais see. Fed by different media outlets, are farangs just not truly aware how deep the divisions and hate in society really are? Or is it the Thais’ lack of the Westerner’s urge for logical reasoning that keeps Thai politics being an endless roller coaster ride between shivering and fever attacks.

And what does that so-called “silent majority” of Thais make of the Bangkok events. Their DAAD mob didn’t really advance the cause of the rural masses. And if you listen to the media, Thailand is on fire and all Thais are either hating the government or dead.

Who the hell knows. The longer you’re around here the less you understand.

Just in time the Bangkok Post has a commentary by Matthew Arnold, who has been a visiting scholar at Chulalongkorn.

Titled “The PAD has become Thailand’s international embarrassment” author Arnold says the PAD ironically helps Thaksin’s image abroad:

Needless to say, foreign readers can only but be left confused by Thailand’s politics. The crux of the confusion is why a country that has had a string of successful elections despite a history of military coups, including one just two years ago, is again seeing political upheaval provoked by a civilian group demanding the effective return to non-democratic government and the disenfranchisement of the rural majority.

One of the ironies for the PAD, however, is that they have done much to rejuvenate Mr. Thaksin’s image abroad, especially in Britain. When questions are raised with his application for political exile in the U.K., Mr. Thaksin’s image can only be helped when people here ponder: “If these protesters are his enemies, maybe he really isn’t so bad!” It had been easy for some of the U.K. press to label him as a corrupt billionaire with authoritarian tendencies. Yet, this has been harder to maintain when the PAD is blatantly trying to force another government from power and demanding the end to full democracy in Thailand. Mr. Thaksin’s reputation is inherently strengthened by the PAD’s current efforts because, after all, he too had suffered such attacks.

Even those who disdain Mr. Thaksin, and Mr. Samak as well, should be troubled by the PAD entrenching itself as the final judge of Thailand’s democratic political outcomes. Indeed, they should be embarrassed by the PAD. The real shame is that while Thailand had such a turbulent period in 2006 and 2007, its international reputation as a stable, democratising nation had greatly improved since the last elections. The more the PAD asserts itself, the more Thailand will be in international headlines and the more it will suffer for it.

Photo via Daily Xpress

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Comments

35 Responses to “Farang Just Don’t Get It”

The Ghost on September 3rd, 2008 1.18 am

I’m not sure I get the post’s point entirely, but let me say I was actually discussing some of this today with a colleague.

I do not support Samak and would love to him and all his cronies out of office. But I also do not support him stepping down under the PAD threat.

I think you have to treat PAD like terrorists and sane people do not negotiate with terrorists. If Samak were to step down because of the “hostage” threat from PAD - which is basically holding the government and nation hostage - then what’s to stop the next splinter or minoirty group from doing the same and so on and so on.

The best thing to happen would be for PAD and the government to arrange a classicly Thai “face saving” solution that allows Samak to stay in power until the PAD drops their protests, then he resign after a short period afterward.

Pipedream probably, but I don’t see many other options left for the government.
Peter Hall on September 3rd, 2008 5.45 am

Earn your degree as a Farang kee-nowk connoisseur: Never underestimate the intelligence of people, regardless of where they come from. I wish I could apply this universally to the Nationalistic drivel Thais are expected to absorb these days;

The blind leading the blinded;

Nothing threatens Thai’s more than foreigners who conceivably understand them better than they understand themselves, which isn’t difficult, given the veils and mazes of obfuscation built for their own people’s inter-class edification-avoidance propaganda, let alone for any “guava people” dependent on some translation, if not lingual, at least cultural understanding of the rot that gets taught as verboten to toddlers-on-upwards in the lovely LOS …
Global Voices Online » First day of State of Emergency in Bangkok on September 3rd, 2008 8.36 am

[...] Samak, yet many local citizens want the prime minister to step down. absolutelybangkok.com discusses this issue: “I cannot help but feel astonished at the fact that many foreigners in Thailand [...]
sevenwinds on September 3rd, 2008 8.46 am

I couldn’t agree with you more. The problem is that many “farangs” bring their own western bias and background and try to apply it to Thailand and how the Thai people should conduct themselves. As outsiders, they can’t possiblly understand the division and class struggle that has been underway for hundreds of years and maybe even contributing to the unrest by applying the western models of democracy here. Not all countries are ready for “democracy” and there is no precedent that says democracy is the best for every country (i.e China).

Those wearing red glasses will always have a problem understanding why everyone else isn’t seeing the same colors they are. And unless you drop your pre-conceived ideas of what is “right or wrong” you will never see what is obvious to the Thai people.
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 10.00 am

This kind of drival is exactly why “farang” is becoming a dirty word in our house. It is offensive that you judge my opinion based on my ethnicity because it disagrees with yours. You have decided that anyone who is not Thai and disagrees with you can not see/understand/has Western bias/etc. I understand very well what is going on in this country. I come from an American state that could on any given day give the most corrupt politician as run for their money in corruption. Look up William Jefferson and then come back and explain how as a farang, I don’t understand Samak/Thai political corruption.

Are YOU all blind and can’t see what the PAD terrorist really want? Are you so committed to remain divided into the haves/have nots that you would readily give up your power to live under a dictatorship again? THAT is what the PAD is all about. If getting rid is Samak is so important that you are willing to live under dictatorship, don’t cry when Thailand becomes just like Burma and remains a third-world country. I will be happy to take my money and my business elsewhere.
bongo on September 3rd, 2008 11.17 am

Oh dear. You used the “f” word.

Everyone has their own opinion as an individual and this has nothing to do with whether they are a “foreigner.” By assuming that someone’s opinion is based on them being a “farang” you are no better than ignorant Thai people who blindly lump all foreigners into this so-called category.

Please stop using the word farang. It is racist, ignorant and offensive. Trying to include it in a discussion about political opinion like this is futile.
BangkokDan on September 3rd, 2008 11.44 am

Sometimes you have to call what is by its name bongo.

Fully agree that the f-word is derogatory, but this piece is written based on purely empirical and not ideological observations.

Who’s that guy again who invented the cultural gap? Seriously, ignoring an inconvenient fact doesn’t help understanding it.

BangkokDan
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 12.32 pm

But Dan, let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying. Are you trying to say that it is okay to make assumptions about non-Thai’s opinions based solely on the fact that they are not Thai? Furthermore, being non-Thai automatically qualifies us as not able to understand?

I have had this argument MANY times in my career as a non-chemical dependent, chemical dependency professional. I am not required to be Thai to understand the politics, customs, culture, and current events of Thailand. I am a highly educated person cabable of understanding the situation and forming an opinion. Saying that being a farang somehow disqualifies my opinion is racist. It also makes Thais seem a little shallow, just as any racist beliefs make other groups shallow and ignorant. When Thais start resorting to my ethnicity as their argument, it tells me that they really don’t have much of an argument.

What empirical observations? What did they use to come up with conclusions? The popular news media? Well that’s certainly a valid source (said in a sarcastic tone)! ALL news outlets have an agenda and that agenda is to make a buck. Blood and guts lead! Controversy sells!

Forgeiners don’t quietly side with the Samak government. We respect the will of the people as shown through an election deemed to be fair by the international community. We have a strong disdain for terrorist trying to topple an elected government. At some point maybe the Western media will call PAD what they really are, terrorist.

PAD leaders had every right to run for office and participate in the electoral process as anyone else. They choose not to because they know they can not win.

Not jumping down your throat Dan. Just annoyed as hell about the whole “farang” thing!
Just an opinion on September 3rd, 2008 12.51 pm

It is quite simple that if you are looking into the situation in the aspect of people who come and leave then you will definitely have different opinions with people who stay.

(Falang is just a Thai word for foreigners or people who are not the citizen of Thailand, I do not know the meaning beyond that so I do not understand why some of you took offend of it. It is just in different language. I am also an Asian in some countries I have visited. It will be strange if I deny that I am not one.)

But the heading “Farang Just Don’t Get It,” I do agree that it is discrimination as some Thais also “do not get it.”

I don’t care who have dirty plans between the government and the PAD. But more to that I don’t understand Western Democracy. Does it gives the rights for people who won the elections to be corrupted and using violence toward civilians? And people do not have rights to bring this bad people down? If we have no rights, what’s the meaning of democracy anyway?

People do not know how good or bad they (the government) are until they have been given a chance to work. And if their works are slowly killing people, why should we keep them? I am amazed that many people in many countries allowed their government (which take salaries from citizens like us) to be corrupted just because they won the election. This is totally conflict with Human Rights. Wouldn’t you kick the corrupted workers out of you office? I also can’t stand the phrase “corruption is normal.” It is NOT normal, it is wrong and should be banished. Democracy will only work if the government obeys the laws and have moral.
BangkokDan on September 3rd, 2008 12.56 pm

Bothers me too that farang thing, can tell you that SBThailand. Your arguments are mine.

It goes without saying that the title “Farang just don’t get it” is a sarcastic if not cynic teaser. To start a debate because “I don’t get it.”

Somewhere you have to make a choice. The “disdain for terrorist trying to topple an elected government” is based on the assumption that there’s a lesser of two evils.

I’ll instinctively go for the lesser evil. Or in other words, I have more respect for the less evil side. Meaning, I’m quietly siding with the status quo. Do I have a choice?

It seems different people see different evils in this debate. Again, isn’t it astonishing that quite an amount of Thai people see - relatively seen - little evil, if not a righteous evil in the quasi-violent disenfranchisement of democracy.

With the lesser of two evils justifying the means?

BangkokDan
Farang on September 3rd, 2008 1.27 pm

Thank you SBThailand.

As a guava person living in Isaan for quite some time now, I’m not sure I exactly understand this post either. It’s the comments that bother me though. If farangs can’t understand the current crisis because of their “farang-ness,” then why are there so many Thais that don’t understand it either?

Despite that, there are many isaan Thais that do understand the situation very well, and they still support Samak. It’s easy to see why … just look at the plethora of articles in the newspapers and internet condemning the PAD and their tactics. I agree that they are basically terrorists. Rural life under Thaksin and Samak was much easier. Corruption is a minor issue here … aren’t all of them corrupt in some sense anyway?

Anyway, a lot of people around here are beginning to see the light. The PAD are more-or-less royalists that want to take away the voting rights of the rural Thais. They will distort any facts to their advantage (look at Preah Vihear or the elsewhere) to support their cause. Isaan folk simply vote and express their opinions a bit too well for the Thai version of the democratic process. It’s clear to most who live up here, whatever ethnicity.

Then again, what am I thinking? Bangkok Thais are higher in wealth, class, and status so of course they deserve a higher proportion of voting rights. Maybe 3 to 1? How about 10 to 1? Long live the People’s Revolution!!!
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 1.57 pm

Dan, I’m with you are on the lesser of two evils deal. Democracy is a much larger ideal than Thaskin vs. PAD, PAD vs. Samak, etc. At some point in this democracy, the people will have to live with the elected government and vote out incumbants that don’t satisfy their expectations. The military so far is too be commended for their stance that this is a political issue and not staging a coup. If PAD gets their way, what is to stop the next group from throwing a temper tantrum when their candidate doesn’t win. It has to stop somewhere.

Just my opinion, this is for you. Corruption is not okay, but it is part of politics. The very nature of holding office invites corruption. In order to do good, sometimes you have to vote for things that you don’t necessarily support. Ideal? NO. Realistic? Yes.

You should care who has dirty plans for Thailand. If PAD gets their way, their dirty plans will be much worse in the long run for most of the citizens of Thailand. Your right to bring the corrupt official down begins with your right to vote and could end with a dictatorship government. It is absolutely wrong to use violence against unarmed, peaceful, LAW ABIDING citizens, however the PAD doesn’t fall into any of those catagories other than citizen. They have blocked roads, disobeyed orders to vacate the premises of a government building, stolen government documents from the building, erected barricades, electrified fences, carried make-shift weapons, and threatened utilities. In most countries, including America, the mob wouldn’t have made it off the sidewalk without being shot.

Furthermore, Falang may have started out as a nice way to describe non-Thais, but it has evolved into a very negative word to excuse our perceived ignorance and confirm Thai superiority.
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 1.59 pm

Man, I’m long winded when I get all worked up about a topic! Sorry for such long post, but the topic is important. I LOVE Thailand and I would hate to leave. I would hate even more if the people we have grown to love were subject to a dictator-type form of government.
bosunj on September 3rd, 2008 2.28 pm

My dear SBT:

As for your statement: “I will be happy to take my money and my business elsewhere.” Perhaps you should, as your countrymen are fond of saying, get the “f” out. Perhaps “love it or leave it” has some resonance?

Most farang, when they first come here, are insulted when called farang. Many also have such difficulty with this and other issues that they pack up and go back to their country within two to two and a half years. One American said to me “how can you live in this crazy country” as he got in the taxi to go to the airport.

Either one accepts the not so good aspects of living here so that they can fully enjoy the great aspects or they remain miserable.

One mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist. It’s all a matter of perspective. Your countrymen canonize George Washington. Imagine the opinion of Englishmen during that time.

Western democracy as practiced in America has proven to be a resounding success hasn’t it! A morally and economically bankrupt country with stolen elections and the almost total revocation of liberties through the (un)Patriot Act! A fascist pathological killer for a Decider who has managed to anger the entire world with his foolishness. The false choice between democrat or republican when both care not at all for their electorate. Where one man one vote has has morphed into one dollar one vote. Oh yes, Americans have much to be proud of.

One can only imagine with your arrogant sense of superiority to non-Americans that you are paying much more for everything than you might otherwise.

Be well.
Contributor on September 3rd, 2008 3.29 pm

100% in agreement with The Ghost. NO SAMAK NO PAD. DEMOCRACY. Samak is right to amend the Constitution, it does not help to stabilize Democracy the way it is written and Samak is right not to resign “because of” the PAD unrest, but Samak is a big part of the problem being himself an heritage of a past unable to bring peace to the country. PAD are everything but D. Democracy is not in their mind and acting. Some of the declarations of Sondhi could not have been better said by some anti-democrat leaders in Europe in the 30s. We farangs have been brought up in Democracy, obeying the Law and respecting Law enforcement authorities so it is normal that we sometimes have different views on what is happening in Thai politics.

Besides all of that the most important thing is for Thailand to find a way forward and a Democratic living. I do not have the answer but will pay something for a clear idea that can lead to that because, as many farangs, we love this country and we wish it well.
Peter Hall on September 3rd, 2008 4.00 pm

Be well:

By taking one’s pick of the worst (foreign, of course) examples of democracy and applying them to a hokum argument, and voilà, we have just confirmed another nationalist with an inferiority complex who cringes when “guava people” comment on his beloved nation. Yes, thankfully it really is still a matter of perspective.
Just an opinion on September 3rd, 2008 4.01 pm

Thank you SBT for explaining what the word “Falang” has become. I am sorry to hear that it has become such a bias word from some non-Thais perceptions. I do strongly believe that people who live in dynamic cultures can find it easier to accept. New Zealand for example, the white people has no offense of being called “Pakeha” as they can accept the fact that it is the natives (Maori) language. FYI: just to point out that the Thais has no intention to look down on foreigners. The word Falang came from “France” during the old time when Frence was hunting for the colonies but the Thais could not pronounce France properly so it has become Farang (the word that they already know err … yup for guava and I have misspelling it Farang not Falang, sorry)

I am also very sorry to see that you are comparing Thai democracy with the United States democracy. However, thank you for growing to love Thailand. Still, a long way to go for you or even for me to understand the Thais politics. In my point of view, the leaders of PAD should be put in prison as well as Samak resigns. The well being of the country is more important than the “unfinished democracy.”
bosunj on September 3rd, 2008 4.14 pm

My dear Peter Hall,

I am greatly amused with your comment. I am an American whom has lived in BKK for ten years. Perhaps I should take your comment as a compliment.

Be well is not by the way my nom de guere. Bosunj is. Bosunj is a conjunction descriptive of my career and the first letter of my given name. Be well is better than the insincere “sincerely yours” don’t you think?

By responding in a knee jerk manner you confirmed yet again why so many farang hit that 2 to 2 1/2 year wall and leave…

Be well.
bosunj on September 3rd, 2008 4.33 pm

My dear just an opinion,

In no way am I comparing Thai democracy to American democracy. Farang who come here often attempt to understand Thai politics by comparing it to the politics of their home. In the case of the Americans I am especially annoyed because the Americans have nothing to brag about. Furthermore, if these farang’s home countries are so great why are they here? FWIW: I am an American who has lived here for ten years because I am disgusted with the country of my birth.

Be well.
doctorbond on September 3rd, 2008 4.36 pm

Democracy, for all its faults is still better than most other forms of government and if a country like Thailand wants to embrace it then it appears to me there are two phases of transition.

First you must learn to respect democracy and play by its rules. If you put out your stall and the majority of the people buy from a different stall you should have the grace to realise that you failed to provide a good enough product. The way to win next time is to put forward a more attractive proposal.
Secondly, when democracy has been established and is working well you can help minimise the success of the corrupt by not voting for them or the parties that embrace them.

It seems to the casual observer that PAD can’t complete the first phase. If they feel that the last elections delivered poor government, they should be concentrating on coming up with a winning manifesto for the next election - instead they are stamping their feet and throwing their toys around like disgruntled children. This makes them no better than the government they are trying to usurp.
Peter Hall on September 3rd, 2008 4.44 pm

Love the guava people who absorb their hosts insecurities and pompously fight for them as if they were “valid” and crusade worthy.

Even more love those who keep an avid count on how long they have been here, (as if it makes them into better people (sic) and use that chronology as a status wedge.

Been here 12, and still being well.
BangkokDan on September 3rd, 2008 4.46 pm

Exactly my point in previous posts doctorbond - a prime example being our dear neighbor Anwar Ibrahim. He may topple the regime - adhering to the strictly constitutional way:

It seems to the casual observer that PAD can’t complete the first phase. If they feel that the last elections delivered poor government, they should be concentrating on coming up with a winning manifesto for the next election - instead they are stamping their feet and throwing their toys around like disgruntled children. This makes them no better than the government they are trying to usurp.

BangkokDan
Just an opinion on September 3rd, 2008 4.49 pm

Sorry for being unclear bosunj (I should not use new paragraph), I was referring to SBT’s Statement “In most countries, including America, the mob wouldn’t have made it off the sidewalk without being shot.” There is noway that The Thais would agree with gun shot no matter how bad the person is, guns should only be use with murderers not with people who believe in their rights whether it is right or wrong in the third eyes views. I do agree with you that “Farang who come here often attempt to understand Thai politics by comparing it to the politics of their home.” This will ended up in “don’t understand at all.”
bosunj on September 3rd, 2008 5.10 pm

My dear Just an opinion,

Please forgive my confusion. Thank you for helping me to understand my mistake.

Be well.
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 5.24 pm

bosunj, honey, if you would walk down my street with me and see how the Thai vendors that line it react when I walk by, you would see that you are very wrong in your opinion of me. I don’t happen to walk around with a superiority complex as you assert. And, I have outlasted the average that stay here with plans to be here 5 or so more years. What is going on in this country will have an effect on me and my family. Frankly, I have no problem with Thais. I do have a problem with people who think they are better/smarter/etc. than someone else based on the color of their skin or the flatness of their nose. Taking my money and my business elsewhere was not a general statement of dislike towards Thailand, but a statement about what will happen if the PAD eventually prevails.

I am here because my husband’s employment brought him here. Unlike it seems a few of you, I love America. I am certainly not blind to its blemishes. The American system of democracy certainly has problems and I am not too keen on it either. However, looking at just Federal elections is certainly a short-sighted view. I can honestly say that I come from the most politically corrupt state in the union, Louisiana. Louisiana is the home to “Good Ol’ Boy” politics and if ya don’t know the politician, then just give them some $$ under the table. This year, we finally have a chance to eventually lose that title because we have a governor committed to ethics reform and government transparency. Change can happen, but not by stealing people’s right to vote and destroying public property.

Yes, I am sure England, which was an absolute monarchy at the time of the revolution, called Americans terrorist at the time. What form of government is England now? Constitutional monarchy, just like Thailand. And what does that mean? They hold elections just like Thailand. And what exactly do you think would happen to a mob trying to overthrow the elected English government by marching on government buildings in London? I am sure the PM would be happy to step down and roll back the clock.

And by the way, my dear bosunj, I didn’t become offended by being called a farang until I had been here a while.
SBThailand on September 3rd, 2008 5.34 pm

My point about stopping the mob before it got to the building is that the government has been much more tolerant of this protest than ANY other country would have been. I am comparing Thai Democracy to US Democracy because it is the democracy that I know the most about. It isn’t that I am unwilling to learn or that I think US democracy is better than. I personally think the US election system leaves plenty to be desired. You all wouldn’t know that because this is a story about Thai politics. Frankly, I don’t believe in the two party system which is why I am registered to vote as an independent. I personally think the Republicans and the Democrats are two very extreme choices that have lost their original intent to POWER. They both say the same thing, just using different words. Which brings up Dan’s point again. It is a choice between two evils, PAD or TRT. PAD’s way, the majority will never (w/o bloodshed) have a voice in who governs them again. At least by maintaining what is in place now, anyone (political party) has a chance to develop a platform that appeals to the majority and is good for the country.
ThaiDude on September 3rd, 2008 6.30 pm

I despise Samak less than I despise PAD. But as a part of the Thai mentality, it is easy to see why many Bangkokians who like to claim they are educated and middle class agree with the PAD and with ignoring the law.

Thailand doesn’t have a culture of rule of law. We have a culture of compromise and in the case of PAD, it has been “no compromise” with Thaksin and Samak. Do or die type mentality.

Couple this with Thailand’s pseudo-feudal, follow the leader attitudes its easy to see that this is all a game of mere emotional manipulation.
Outsider on September 3rd, 2008 7.50 pm

I’m not familiar with Thai politics and am new to the culture here as I’ve just arrived. But it seems like which ever side wins, the people will still lose. It’s like you’ve got 2 choices. Death by firing squad or death by hanging. Either way you’re dead.
hobby on September 3rd, 2008 8.32 pm

SB Thailand said: “… the government has been much more tolerant of this protest than ANY other country would have been.”

They may have been tolerant, but they have not been competent.

The ‘our either with us or against us’ attitude, combined with lumping genuine grievances in with nonsensical ones and arrogantly dismissing them all, does not help IMO.

Nor does and labelling housewives & co as terrorists.

If anything, its a sure way of ensuring that the ‘terrorist’ support grows - anyone seen that done before?

That said, I do not wish to see Samak resign or PPP be banned - I just would like them to be reasonable, instead of arrogant and self serving.

They could have done much better if they truly respected democracy (if they had done so, PAD would just be a fringe group by now, instead of the monster it has become).

Peace.
Peter Hall on September 3rd, 2008 8.38 pm

New censorship laws - are you on the list?

Guardian
Edaiki on September 4th, 2008 12.48 am

Bangkok Dan San,

Great post using the word “farang.” It did exactly what is said on the tin.

Nice to see the fish still bite to the same old bait.

My questions is; after all these posts, are you or is anyone the wiser?

Rock on Big Boy!
BangkokDan on September 4th, 2008 8.44 am

Edaiki San!

Snappy as ever.

Maybe I asked an impossible question?

But it does good to question one’s own mind once in a while.

BangkokDan
SBThailand on September 4th, 2008 11.05 am

Happy to bite the bait if it leads to a discussion about an issue that is obviously an issue.
Peter Hall on September 4th, 2008 2.13 pm

Feeling fruity in the Land of Smiles. There must be an issue here for the Thais also, as I have been referred to by other fruit names a few times, a sort of rhymin’ slang if you like: “… a mango just walked into the shop …”
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