Most Dangerous: Iraq. Second: Thailand?!

Ever felt insecure in Bangkok? Threatened by a mean Thai? You wouldn’t be the first one. Each week a couple of foreigners leave Thailand in a coffin – or an urn for that, for being a much cheaper and much less bureaucratic last way to travel.

Main reasons for foreigners dying here though are not murders. But strokes, motorcycling without helmet, swimming without checking the currents, popping a Viagra without having the stamina for it. And so on.

True. Now and then a foreigner gets murdered. Many even “disappear” without a headline. A trip to Bangkok’s central morgue will serve as quiet proof that not few foreign victims are “stored temporarily” here – to never be claimed.

Most got clear wounds. But official cause of death in most cases is “cardiac arrest”. As – as a local doctor pointed out to me – even with a knife through your heart you die of cardiac arrest.

Post-mortem evidence is scarce. To attest a cardiac arrest is therefore a politically correct, safe bet for doctors and accordingly common over here. Besides: Who would pay for a proper autopsy?

And now we’re told by raunchy foreign news reports: Most known and unknown foreign victims got murdered by heinous Thais. With the most endangered foreign species in Thailand being:

Brits.

“Is Thailand really so dangerous for foreigners?”, a recent Nation-story was titled. Go figure yourself, here’s the story:

“Besides being home to countless noodle-soup carts, coyote dancers and moaning air-hostesses, Thailand is also home to some of the most sensational rumors east of the White House – mostly spread by Westerners over a few too many glasses of the intoxicating type, and by a sensationalist foreign media.

Let’s start with some barstool rumors so terrifying that if you were sane enough, you’d be packing your bags for safer destinations like the Gaza Strip.

Thailand is a country so berserk that if you are cheesed-off with your neighbor, you can, with the assistance of one of Thailand’s professional gunmen have him instantly shot into his next life. That menacing-looking tuk-tuk driver who hangs around outside your favorite bar: Never get into any kind of conflict with that guy. Take extreme care and caution, as he’s probably part of a ruthless criminal gang.

Watch out too for every murdering ex-police officer who is supposed to be serving life behind bars: He has been swapped for a look-alike and is out roaming the streets again. And don’t forget those petite Thai women in Pattaya who are extremely skilled at lifting their tall, overweight rich foreign lovers and tossing them over a hotel balcony.

Geez, Thailand must be one of the most dangerous places in the world! But it really is (for Brits anyway) according to a leading UK tabloid, whose headline read: “With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our government not warn of the dangers faced there?” The article stated that “Thailand may be friendly and engaging, yet its dark side is clearly visible”.

And as for the Thais themselves, “they tend to separate the persona they present to the world from their interior character”. The article argues its point by offering the statistic of at least 17 Brits being murdered since 2003 ~ except for Iraq, the highest percentage of any country in the world for Brits brutally slain.

Of course, most foreigners reading this would be quick to point the finger of guilt at Thais. But after doing a bit of research and obtaining the names of those supposedly horrifically murdered, I found the following: There was no news coverage whatsoever for two of the murdered; another two seemed to be obvious cases of manslaughter; and another five were actually murdered by other foreigners. The original statistic for Thai culprits is therefore slashed by half.

I can’t say that Thailand doesn’t see a high number of Westerners getting knocked-off, because it does. But for a change, I’d like the Western media, when reporting these kind of statistics, to mention the quite obvious fact that Thailand doesn’t always attract the nicest kind of foreigner. It attracts a lot of foreign criminals. Perhaps the British government ought to put out a warning stating that, too.

One murder case (which could legally be considered manslaughter) was the much publicized recent shooting by a police officer of two North American tourists in Mae Hong Son province. One tourist died while the other survived. Even though it was later confirmed by tens of foreign witnesses living in the area that the surviving woman had a well-known history of violent drunken behavior – including punching police officers – the foreign media stuck to its Thai-bashing reports. Even though the female victim went on to change her account of events preceding the shooting, the foreign Press adhered to the original sensationalized (and perhaps fabricated) reports that she was shot for no reason whatsoever by the drunk policeman. The cop, who had a history of violence, fled the scene after the shooting.

Sure, I pity the murdered guy in Pai district (and his family) and hope that the officer spends time incarcerated for this hideous crime. But I wish that the foreign media wouldn’t jump to sensational conclusions every time something like this happens. They immediately compared the crime in Pai to the awful backpacker-killing cop in Kanchanaburi a few years ago. The media should be advised instead to wait for clearer and more accurate firsthand reports before setting up the gallows and taking Thailand to the cleaners.

Then there’s the other Western media favorite: Thailand’s spicy nightlife. Some foreigners may conclude that the true fault behind sensationalist reports on this subject is Thailand’s own – due to governments and law-enforcers constantly turning a blind-eye to illegal goings-on. Yet, it could be argued that sensationalist foreign reports just make the problem worse.

Take a recent Canadian documentary by an “award-winning” journalist from Global BC. According to this enlightened reporter, after two weeks of intensive undercover research, it was found that “most of them (naughty show bars in two areas in the Silom and Sukhumvit districts in Bangkok) operate under prison-like conditions”. At these venues “a 16-year-old can be had for 600 baht a time” and “under-aged girls are numbered like cattle”.

Pattaya is no better according to the reporter: “Pre-pubescents can be found at every street corner,” “there are many hotels that allow you to rape children,” and “pedophiles who get caught can just bribe their way out”.

This documentary, when posted on YouTube, received so many complaints that it was finally pulled off the site. I am certainly not saying that this kind of activity does not go on, because it does, but sensationalist reporting like this is only going to encourage more of the worst kind of tourist to visit Thailand.

I’ll admit, and Thais will admit, that Thailand has a very high murder rate – which includes a fair number of Westerners. Thailand’s statistics, though, don’t differentiate between murder charges and murder convictions. I feel it is unfair that the foreign media continues, as it has been doing for decades, to report on this in a sensational and sometimes fabricated way. Unfortunately, this sensationalism is very similar to that purveyed by some of the foreign gossip-mongers here, who believe everything they read and hear.

And finally, I believe it is more than possible that there is a strong connection between those kind of people and foreign reporters looking for a sensational story.”

Via The Nation/ANN

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Comments

15 Responses to “Most Dangerous: Iraq. Second: Thailand?!”

BangkokDan on March 17th, 2008 8.59 am

I was saying?

HERALD TRIBUNE: Thais Scramble To Allay Tourist Fears After Recent Assaults.

BangkokDan
Randy J. Himes on December 14th, 2008 9.47 am

I recently lived in Thailand from 7/1/07 to 5/1/08. First I have to say I fell in love with the country and culture in my ten month stay there. Second I agree Thailand is one of the most dangerous places on earth. Most travelers who stay for a short period of time may not notice or understand what happens there everyday. Its also true that Thai people are not the only cause for this. I met and spoke with people from every country in the world there and a big share of them were very bad people. Criminals who are living there, hiding out so to speak and getting away with it. I was sickened nearly daily but what I was seeing and hearing. The Thai people for the most part are friendly and caring due to their culture. You have to live there for awhile before you fully understand the whole picture. I plan to return as I was lucky to meet some of the best people and learned to know the difference.
Killing spree in Thailand? - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum on March 26th, 2009 7.41 pm

[...] why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? – Asia, World – The Independent Most Dangerous: Iraq. Second: Thailand?! Thailand tops “most dangerous holiday destination” list – Paknam Web Thailand Forums – In pictures: [...]
Kenneth Su on April 16th, 2009 5.23 pm

I agree 100% percent. It is a very dangerous country. Most of the citizens are childlike and will do anything for money sex, murder, lie, etc.
Mr C on May 5th, 2009 5.21 pm

I think you hit the nail on the head there (Kenneth Su). The citizens are fully grown children who act accordingly. They cannot take responsibility for their actions and always pass the blame onto others.
Meow on July 15th, 2009 4.55 pm

Oh yeah, what a bunch of racist bastards. I lived in Thailand all my life, and my body parts still remains fully intact, thank you very much. Especially MR Kenneth Ching Chong Su (Kha Men perhaps?).
LookKrung on August 25th, 2009 3.11 pm

As a Westerner who lived in Thailand for 14 years and speaks fluent Thai, I wholeheartedly disagree with this entire article. If you want the West to stop reporting on the “bad” things in Thailand, then FIX the country and stop bad people from doing those bad things. Most of the things you talk about here are OUT OF CONTROL in Thailand, and only Thai people can fix it. The Western media can’t even begin to sensationalize some of the things I’ve seen and heard in Thailand – if anything they are playing down the worst of it. It’s a typical Asian response to “blame the messenger,” but as this article itself points out, anybody can buy a child for sex in Thailand. Should we even be worrying about media coverage when that’s a daily fact of life that nobody seems to care about?
Mike D. on September 12th, 2009 2.14 pm

Don’t believe any so-called “statistics” about Thailand or how “dangerous” it is. As a British person who has lived in Thailand continuously for the past 2 years and 6 months in the 2 years before that (3 years in total), in central Bangkok, Koh Samui and Phuket, I have never felt in danger myself or seen any violence. You hardly even see any violence on TV. To make a Thai person angry, you have to provoke them first or cause them to lose face. In other words, if you respect Thailand and Thais or at least turn the other cheek, you’re unlikely to ever face any danger here even if you live your whole life. The only violence I have seen in Thailand is European guys fighting each other when drunk in Koh Samui. Just smiling is enough to defuse any tension situation or misunderstanding in Thailand. I feel totally safe walking alone at midnight anywhere in Thailand, and I’d feel under threat in the same situation in Europe or North America. Having observed their behaviour, I trust Thai people in general more than the foreigners here in Thailand, because there’s certainly a bad foreign element here. Remember most Thais believe in karma and reincarnation as a stray dog, et cetera, and they’re not going to do bad to others unless provoked first. Live and let live, smile, say mai pen lai and be generous, and Thai people will love you as a visitor to their country. In other words, to avoid the risk of getting into trouble, don’t interact the same way you would in your native country. You have to adapt to the way of life of the country you’re in, and if you can’t do that, give up and go home.
lookkrung on September 12th, 2009 5.22 pm

Mike D, I think you misunderstand the thrust of my comment. I agree with everything you just said, but there comes a time when Thais themselves have to stop using the excuse of “face” and other things to allow rampant corruption and criminality to destroy a beautiful country. The depth of my rage on this issue is that the Thailand I see today is very different to the Thailand I saw 14 years ago. It’s all well and good that there is a push to modernisation and even “westernization,” but if Thais insist on adopting Western modes of life as well, then let it be without Western modes of criminality – which imho are incompatible with the Thai culture.

It’s true that if you’re a foreigner walking down the street in midnight, it’s highly unlikely you will get mugged. However, the potential to get scammed out of everything you own if you are just a clueless foreigner (which thankfully I am not), is MUCH higher than in Western countries. Stories like we hear about tourists getting scammed at the Airport duty free stores (with the full cooperation of law enforcement and local authorities and judiciary) are absolutely UNACCEPTABLE in ANY country – especially Thailand.

The problems I referred to involving the child sex trade are caused by exactly the same corruption. Until Thais stop worrying about “hai naa” (losing face), and pull their finger out to create a truly independent judiciary and law enforcement fraternity (no mean feat, given that the entire national police force is now effectively just a 100% corrupt shake-down money making operation), these problems will just escalate, to the point where foreigners will no longer go to Thailand.

This would be to the detriment of Thailand and all Thais, even in the last two years hotels and tourist attractions in Thailand have complained of record low numbers of tourists – it’s because these types of stories are getting worse, and the criminals are getting more brazen.

I say “Mai pen lai” if some T-shirt vendor in Pratuu Naam slyly underchanges me by 50 baht, I do not say “Mai pen lai” when a politician pays a police general 100,000 baht to look the other way when he f**ks a five year old girl from up country, and niether should you, regardless of your nationality or ethnicity.
Buster on October 15th, 2009 5.45 am

After living in Thailand for almost 20 years, I knew instinctively from personal experiences that Thailand was not a safe place. I gathered some statistics (below) that proved that my feelings were accurate.

I have been threatened many times, guns pulled on me and been in many situations in Thailand where my safety has been seriously compromised. All of my friends who do not have a dog have had their homes burglarized. I know many people that have been killed & maimed on the roads here and several who have been shot, severely beaten and murdered. I now know what lies behind the Thai smile.

I am not saying that all Thais are bad but I am saying that there’s proportionately more bad people here than many other places in the world which statistically puts Thailand in dangerous territory.

The statistics demonstrate that Thailand is a dangerous place for all foreigners for a number of reasons.

Here are some statistics:

As per the Global Peace Index 2008

Thai vs. U.S.

Number of homicides per 100,000 people 3 : 2

Level of violent crime 4 : 1

Level of organized conflict (internal) 3 : 1

Overall rank 2008 1-140 (1 most peacful) 118 : 97

As per WHO:

Heavy vehicle driver collision with car, pickup, van *

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)

#1 Ecuador: 185 deaths

#2 Thailand: 48 deaths

#3 Mexico: 15 deaths

#4 Venezuela: 6 deaths

#5 Korea, South: 6 deaths

Unspecified drowning and submersion (per capita)

World Ranking Deaths per 1 million people (numbers rounded to nearest whole digit)

#1 Belize: 64

#2 Thailand: 56

#3 Cayman Islands :45

#4 Kyrgyzstan: 44

#5 El Salvador: 42

As per the OECD Factbook 2007: Economic, Environmental and Social Statistics for 2005, road fatalities/million population for Italy and the U.S. were 90 and 145 respectively. As per the Department of Highways of Thailand, road fatalities for the same period were 504 (per million population)! That’s almost 6 times the fatality rate in Italy for the same year.

The homicide with firearms rates in Thailand are equally as staggering. Based on the 8th U.N. survey 2002, Thailand rated 3rd in the world for murders with firearms, surpassed only by Columbia and South Africa. On a per capita basis, Thailand’s murder rate was approximately 6 times that of the U.S. Thailand’s murder rate (all causes) was double that of the US.
tonha on October 19th, 2009 5.39 pm

Those stories about murder or kidnapping are bull s**t. Every country has red zone where criminal rates are high. If you like to do stuff like drinking in a-ko-ko club, whore f**king, or buying drugs you might have more chance to be in such a place and get you more risk of mugging and stuff. I’ve never seen anyone around me get killed, kidnapped or even harmed by those criminals you’re talking about before in my whole life.

But crazy drivers in Thailand are something you have to worry about. The high rate of dying from traffic is because many people ride motor-bike without helmet so just make sure you dont do that.

And the homicide with firearms rate in Thailand is high? Are you sure? I’ve only seen guns and stuff once I went to the army.
lookkrung on October 19th, 2009 6.38 pm

@tonha you’re incredibly naive, and you’re also missing the point. Give me several thousand baht, and an afternoon, and I can take you to at least three places in Bangkok where you can buy whatever gun you want, and bullets. Or, to make it even easier: give me even more baht, and I can take you to someone who will gladly shoot your business competitor in the head, FOR you.

The fact is this simply does not happen on such a wide scale in other countries as it does in Thailand. I’m sick of Thai people trying to deny it for the sake of saving face – they have to fix the problem, not try to pretend it doesn’t exist.

And you implying that those “morally questionable” tourists somehow deserve their fate just proves my point – they wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place it Thailand controlled drugs, prostitution and “criminal red zones” more effectively. Or do you think they are a necessary evil in society? If so, then you have to accept that Thailand will continue to have a reputation as a dangerous place.
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tonha on October 26th, 2009 10.50 pm

The point is why don’t you inform those places to the police or just notice right here where it is and i’ll inform the police myself. Those guys certainly never enter this site, do they? So there’s nothing to worry about.

This is not for saving Thai people’s face by denying it but I’m maybe just too naive as you said.

But when people like you who are NOT naive just ignore it, if you’re not one of their customers, you should do something for the sake of Thais’ face and YOUR face.
lookkrung on October 27th, 2009 11.43 am

@tonha lol, you can’t be that stupid, surely?

Obviously you either know nothing about Thailand, or have never lived there. The police are PART of the problem. 99% of those kinds of “business” are able to run because the police either control them, or take kickbacks from them in return for their safety. I know some people in Bangkok who run a bar. I asked them if they pay the police, and they said yes. I asked how much, and they said (I swear I’m not making this up) we’re on the “Light plan.” The “light plan” is 4000 baht a month, and basically it buys: if there is going to be a police raid at night, someone comes by at 4 pm and tells the bar owner to not open tonight. Who knows what the “advanced plan” involves – immunity from prosecution? Police hit squads? Western tourists never question why “after hours” nightclubs can cost up to 4,000 baht to get into in Bangkok. I did – and the manager told me it’s because she pays the cops 100,000 baht a month.

The point is that Thais have to fix this at the government level. Thailand is a democracy, and Thais have to field and elect politicians who are not corrupt, who are brave enough to do something (such as in other western democracies) like : Set up an internal crime and corruption commission, run independently/bi-partisan, with powers to imprison corrupt cops or politicians – focusing on their leaders first. Nobody in Thailand has – ever- made an example of corrupt officials in this way, so people continue to take from a massive gravy train.

Until Thai people themselves start fighting for this, all “calling the police” will do for you is land you in a smelly jail cell for the night, while a cop waves his pistol in your face and asks you how much money you have in your ATM account (which, coincidentally, is usually the price of your freedom).

“Call the police.” LOL

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