Not Happy

23 Responses to “Not Happy”

1. jaded on November 19th, 2008 2:37 pm

   I think it’s worse than you realize. As someone who is reasonably savvy to the way that things work in Thailand you may have managed to avoid direct contact with the local property development mafia. Be grateful you are in a position to organize your own contractors … I would direct your attention to the recent shooting of Donald Whiting, a property scandal whistleblower in Hua Hin. He was shot a week before he was due to appear in court in a well known case against a prominent local developer. As far as I am aware the motivation behind this shooting remains unknown and it would not be reasonable to speculate when the case is still being investigated, However the profile of the developer who was also involved in the case is quite interesting. This gentleman has the appearance of being Hua Hin’s very own super magnate. He owns a local English language newspaper which regularly features photographs of himself with leading public officials. His largesse towards the local community is also well known. He has donated to a number of local causes and paid for the construction of the police station at the main entrance to Hua Hin beach. A sign of the esteem in which he is held is that he employs a senior recently retired police officer to manage his public relations.

   Donald’s background is more simple. A former U.S. marine, he and his wife Dolly, who is an academic and vice rector of Stamford University, thought Hua Hin was the paradise that they wanted to retire to. They sold their house in Hawai and moved here looking for the good life. I think they have had good cause to regret that the they took this view. A number of months before the recent shooting their new car was petrol bombed outside their house … Hua Hin’s community seem to be strong believers in the code of omerta so it is quite possible that you would never be made aware of this story, or a number of others stories that are whispered more than spoken …

   If I were you I would be less concerned about the minor rip offs that inevitably occur in an economic downturn and much much more concerned about the condition of the local expat community. I’ve lived in both Hua Hin and in Pattaya. Without a doubt Pattaya is sleazier. But, judging by what happened to Donald, Hua Hin is possibly a much more dangerous place for a decent person …

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2. John Forster Webb on November 19th, 2008 7:47 pm

   The developer behind the shooting of Donald Whiting is not the newspaper magnate. The case with this developer has now been resolved.

   Donald & Dolly were taking their current home builder to court and 3 days before the court date Donald was shot. The dispute was over fraudulent water bills. Also, 3 days after this developer was informed by his lawyer that D&D were taking him to court their car was firebombed.

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3. number&number on November 19th, 2008 11:01 pm

   Whistlin’n against the wind: Don’t the local population have enough of a hard time dealing and being coerced by corrupt criminals; why should foreigners feel they will have any success exposing corruption by being whistleblowers. I think it is naive and shows lack of understanding of how things work here. Complaining in the press or on a forum is one thing, but to expect things to change? Sad reality.

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4. jaded on November 20th, 2008 12:12 am

   I have no idea what the particular circumstances are in this shooting case. If there have been arrests then the fact that this has not made it into the media is surely an excellent example of how effectively the press has been muzzled there. The local forum has claimed that the police have encouraged them to censor post although I would note that a very well known national forum specializing in immigration issues is posting without censorship. Its interesting too that neither of the main local English language newspapers mention the shooting online even though it happened well before their publication deadlines. I haven’t had a chance to see the hardcopy though. I hope people congratulate Colin of “Observer” fame for giving it the front page treatment that it deserved in his news roundup.

   Whatever the actual circumstances of this case really are, the attitude of both the authorities and the local community should be sending a shiver down the spines of prospective householders in this so called beach paradise. Considering your warm feeling for Hua Hin I would suggest you take note of the sentiments that have been expressed by the other two people who have posted in the last few hours. I think there is a real case to made at this point for arguing that many of the permanent residents of Hua Hin have been intimidated and are fearful of making their views known. If, as Mr Webb seems to believe, the background to this horrible crime was something to do with an overcharged water bill then I should say that the price of making your opinions public is even more monstrously high than I had previously thought. I have to admit that I heard the same theory from a couple of people within a few days of the shooting becoming public knowledge. Number and number has views that I would say are representative of most of the decent people that I know in Hua Hin. Scoffing at the idea that exposing corruption will in any way change the situation might be misguided cynicism though. Hua Hin needs to maintain its image as a safe nice alternative beach destination easily reached from Bangkok. If the people who buy property there had any idea how vulnerable a resident foreign householder can be to intimidation and abuse they would turn around and head for sleazier but safer Pattaya. And the very thought of that might be enough to see some action taken against the mafioso style intimidation that seems to be going on… The big business in Hua Hin is the property development business and these thugs are going to kill it if they are allowed to continue to behave this way. You’ve obviously bought a place there so you have a personal interest in making sure that this is merely a temporary problem …

   How isolated could you become in Hua Hin? Well consider the reports of the response time of the police to the shooting … If these reports are true and they are that slow when a farang gets shot, what chance do you have if its just intimidation, threats or a bit of a beating … Compared to the security of Pattaya your peaceful existence in Hua Hin seems to be unsupported. And other aspects of the local infrastructure like medical care, fresh water supplies and waste treatment leave much to be desired also … Its a moot point whether the environment is better on that side of the gulf but for sure your existence as a human being is much better supported in Pattaya …

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5. jaded on November 20th, 2008 2:15 am

   Writing the comment above motivated me to have a look at the forums that are carrying threads on the shooting. Sure enough someone had cut and pasted a link to this page asking people to look at the first comment I left. This was done on the Hua Hin forum that loves to censor themselves. The moderator was on to it immediately … No discussion of the comment but a brief burst of pseudo discussion about unfair pricing … What was the title of the new thread? Has Hua Hin become a gangsters place for expats? Maybe there was a reference to pricing in there but I must say I didn’t notice it …

   No, I had nothing to do with the postings. I am familiar with some of the people involved in this site and their practices. It’s an indication of the climate of fear and intimidation that they are so keen on self censorship I think. Personally, these chaps are not shrinking voilets which makes their fear of nameless authority quite interesting. Of course I look sometimes to see what they allow people to say but I have never bothered to register. On the other hand I am a long time fan of your site and normally I use it to link to the day’s news. Some time ago you carried an interesting post on Teak Door. That was a good tip for me and I hadn’t heard of it before I read your piece. I’d like you to feel free to treat my comments as a personal email btw. What I wrote was in response to your original post and is based on my understanding of your views on censorship and the right to information … I really do appreciate the fine site that you have constructed and, of course, its entirely up to you whether you post or not post my views. As a long term fan I wish you well either way and will continue to use you as a link to what’s happening.

   I also noticed that today you had a link to a Peter Jansen piece on Monsters and Critics. Peter’s story on some of the leading players in the current HH property scandals got a lot of coverage. And, speaking to him recently about the shooting, he told me that he got into a lot of trouble over it. It’s Thailand, and as one of your other posts points out, you would need to be very innocent to believe that exposing corruption will lead to anything being done but, as you seem to have bought into the place, you should know something about what is really going on … Consider this my homage to the creator of site I go to for news … Best of luck in Hua Hin. I liked it when I went there first. Having watched it visibly degrade over the last few years I am happy to be out of there …

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6. jaded on November 20th, 2008 2:26 am

   You definitely won’t want to post this but I think you should check out this link. Its doesn’t pop up right away and I hadn’t noticed it before but its certainly an interesting discussion … Seeing this I feel I may have been overly critical of the sites owners courage. Bless!

   http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/mafia-murder-crime-etc-t10677.html?highlight=farang%20shot

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7. BangkokDan on November 20th, 2008 7:48 am

   Most welcome jaded.

   You make it all look so easy and yet difficult at the same time.

   Hua Hin remains my fav spot, not a single doubt about it, just don’t get bothered by some of those hardly avoidable predictabilities.

   BangkokDan

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8. cosmo on November 20th, 2008 9:13 am

   Hmmm … a former U.S. Marine got killed? And his American wife does not report it to U.S. embassy? Or if she reported, the embassy is not doing anything to help? Hmmm …

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9. John Forster Webb on November 20th, 2008 10:40 am

   cosmo:

   Donald wasn’t killed. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair whilst on a ventilator. How do you know Dolly didn’t report this terrible crime to the U.S. embassy.

   People in Hua Hin are afraid of speaking out against the developer cartel. Donald was the consumer spokesperson sitting on the new trade association’s committee. This committee was set up to protect the house buyers in Hua Hin. He was very vocal and rightly so and he almost paid with his life.

   There is a developer operating in Hua Hin who is presently on the run from the U.K. police. The Royal Thai Police are taking this case very seriously and seem genuinely embarrassed that this type of crime is being committed in His Majesty the King’s home town.

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10. John Forster Webb on November 20th, 2008 8:41 pm

    As is the norm on HHAD the developers’ and real estate agents’ friends and supporters AKA Super Joe and Buksida rally to spin the truth. The time is running out for your paymasters.

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11. Charles Frith on November 21st, 2008 7:05 pm

    About 6 years ago a motorcycle taxi ride tripled in price for guests in the country. I knew then despite my fluent Thai that Hua Hin is no different than Pattaya if the sex industry is removed.

    That isn’t to say there isn’t a sex industry in Hua Hin. It get’s bigger each year although that will stop when the visitor numbers drop very shortly.

    I seem to recall that in 1997 the Thais were very appreciative of those that did travel to the kingdom. I hope a similar sentiment reemerges.

    It’s fair to say that it’s our money that has spoiled most of Thailand.

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12. Peter on November 24th, 2008 11:35 am

    O & Co are spoiling Hua Hin with their devious business practice, intimidation and associated violence.

    The Thai wife will hold the land, first problem. The consumer will have received advice to either do without a lawyer or use the local man who operates from the old shopping mall (Hua Hin). He isn’t a lawyer and works for the developer/agent who recommended him.

    Complain to the developer about general snaggs etc. and possibly end up like Donald Whiting.

    Easier not to deal with Brits in Hua Hin.

    Thank you.

    Peter (Hua Hin)

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13. John Forster Webb on November 25th, 2008 11:51 am

    Peter

    Maybe you could e-mail me in confidence? The situation has developed somewhat over the past couple of weeks and the investigation has taken a turn for the better.

    My e-mail: johnforsterwebb@yahoo.com

    Regards

    John

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14. steve on December 19th, 2008 2:03 pm

    Nothing has been done about the shooting of Donald. I was speaking to Dolly last week. Farang on farang police don’t want to know.

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15. John Forster Webb on December 26th, 2008 9:26 am

    Interpol still have a pending case against an individual who jumped bail in the U.K. who is now resident in Hua Hin and operating as a property developer. Mr. O. isn’t off the hook by any stretch of the imagination, despite what the Hua Hin crime family may say.

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16. John Forster Webb on January 22nd, 2009 8:30 pm

    The Bangkok police are now investigating the shooting of Donald. Once again the the Hua Hin local forum are trying to dumb down this crime. Super Joe, please show some respect for Donald & Dolly why are you protecting this individual?

    Donald was told on numerous occasions that should he pursue his court action against this developer then his life would be taken.

    Your friend at the time of the shooting was out of the country and is using this as his primary defense. People like you Super Joe and the other mods are doing a pretty good job at providing him with a secondary defense.

    Everyone knows that the bubble wasn’t involved so there is only one low life in the frame who is presently on the run from the U.K. police.

    e-mail me if you would like to be educated on this persons past.

    John F Webb

    johnforsterwebb at yahoo dot com

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17. Socratis on January 27th, 2009 9:45 am

    As a Thai, I’m very sorry to hear this sad but true story. Unfortunately, there still are too many Thai merchants who wanna make quick money by overcharging for goods. This has happened not only to farangs but also to Thais who are from out of town. Being a Thai tourist some time, I had experienced paying 20 Baht for a 500-ml bottle of drinking water myself a few times which of course made me furious. But as I grew older and had learned how to avoid being a victim to such practice, I found those experiences to be cheap lessons learnt. And in the process, you’ll find this to be a minor thing in life, a nuisance maybe, that is worth paying for in exchange of many good things in life that this country has to offer.

    Most Thai people, if you get to know them personally, are kind hearted people and will treat foreigners highly. Of course, there are exceptions to this, as in anywhere else.

    As for the farang mafias that defraud and kill people, it is another story altogether. The farang mafia cannot operate without help from local authorities, especially the Thai police, who are well known to be highly corrupted. There is good news though. A few days ago, PM Abhisit Vejjajiva has summoned 2 top police officials and personally ordered them to take on the case of Donald Whiting. So there’s still hope that crimes of such magnitude as Donald Whiting’s shooting will not be left quiet and will eventually be corrected. Let’s hope for the best!

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18. BangkokDan on January 28th, 2009 8:09 am

    Looks like we got some Donald Whiting/Hua Hin arrests – that was quick:

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/136038/three-held-in-murder-attempt-on-american

    As if our best in brown didn’t know all along.

    BangkokDan

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19. krid on January 28th, 2009 1:20 pm

    Having quite an interest in Hua Hin and after reading the Bangkok Post article “PM wants unresolved crime cases revived” on Jan. 21st I had googled the “murders of a British couple who worked for Stamford University in Hua Hin” in several combinations to come up with absolutely nothing(?!) Now I realize it was due to quality Bangkok Post journalism: Neither were they British, nor were they murdered (attempted, ok), nor were they both shot or working for Stamford etc.

    To see what kind of “developers” Donald and Dolly were up against the discussion at

    Monsters & Critics

    is also a must read, especially since the main Hua Hin forum is hampered by censorship and hooligan property peddlers posing as unbiased members.

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20. mcdonald on January 28th, 2009 4:50 pm

    Police claim that Mr. O’s lovely wife made all the arrangements for the murder and paid with a bank transfer. Nice family! A Dragon Lady for sure!

    Those defenders of O&co should be eating a hearty meal of crow and humble pie, but we will not hear a word from them. Will Hua Hin take this opportunity to clean up its besmirched image or will another of the developer mafia take his place and continue the terror.

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21. John Forster Webb on January 28th, 2009 9:52 pm

    Agreed, there are many who have supported O. & Co. and even today I heard a developer friend of Oxley’s giving justification for the shooting. Oxley was riding around town certainly for the last couple of months on The Hot Property motorcycle, I’m surprised that J.W. still has ties with Oxley.

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22. BangkokDan on January 29th, 2009 8:54 pm

    So they got a Hua Hin mastermind.

    “… left them with an unfinished, sub-standard concrete monstrosity instead of the Thai-Bali style mansion they had dreamed of …”

    Simply astonishing how much you can achieve how quickly around here if there’s the will to.

    BangkokDan

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23. Jaded on February 1st, 2009 4:18 pm

    Nice choice of words …

    “a” Hua Hin “mastermind”

    The other characters will shrug their shoulders and say, “I told you so. I had nothing to do with it.” And business as usual will continue to be conducted with scant regard for the delusional punters who buy into this odd place. I guess its all over for now. Tune in after Apec for new stories with a new cast of characters.

    I still enjoy your website as much as ever so, as a place where discussion is relatively open about this sort of thing, I’ll make the following points.

    1. The Isoc is getting a lot of media attention these days and its certainly the most potent of the organizations in Thailand that are used in conventional and unconventional ways to assert state control in difficult circumstances. If you are curious about other Hua Hin developers who might fit into the mastermind category you should pay attention to who their financial backers supposedly are. Its well known that around Hua Hin are a number of military, border police, paramilitary and internal security related sites. The full apparatus of state coercion seems to be present here in one form or another. It should not then come as a surprise that there is some spill over into local business activities. Local developers sometimes like to get their photos taken with men in uniform. Can you really be surprised if the other inhabitants of the local expatriate community see this, possibly as they are intended to, as a sign of hidden connections and unaccountability?

    2. Which leads me neatly to my next point. You should now be able to see clearly that the local expat community is quite cowed by bully boy tactics and intimidation. And posting on HHAD is unlikely to enlighten you on any serious subject. The forum presents itself as the voice of the local community but having followed its treatment of the Whiting case you’d have to be very innocent indeed to believe that this is any reflection of the true views of locals.

    3. Perhaps you heard the old story of the electric shock “therapy” administered by dissatisfied associates to a large developer. He faded from the scene for a while but then made a comback. In Hua Hin’s property market, seemingly with the support of local officials, the poachers are running the reserve. Of course, you can disbelieve the rumors that a number of flagrant frauds have taken place orchestrated by a clique of dubious individuals who cooperate when there is a sucker to be fleeced. The stories usually circulate some time after the event took place. How do these stories get out? Inevitably the conspirators fall out with each other later. Sadly, it seems that to some extent the embarrassment factor is almost as potent as the intimidation factor when it comes to the victims blowing the whistle!

    4. The pattern of money distribution may also be different to the usual Thailand pattern in this environment. Its certainly true that investigations are pointless when the money is flowing to the right places. I have read that normally the money flows from the bottom to the top in the cops. Michael Black and Bertil Lintner’s new work on the methamphetamine trade is good text for understanding this process. See particularly pp 102-105. Perhaps HH is a desirable posting like some of the entertainment districts in BKK? Does the cash that ends up in official hands go in at a much higher level than normal? You can also get your picture in the farang paper if you are a senior officer in HH… Many local people have direct knowledge of the lower level stuff. Some scarey mid-ranking cops are involved in entertainment businesses which explains the explosion of prostitution related activity around the Hilton but if you are a street cop then you still need to focus on motorcycle helmets at the end of the month. But what happens with the high ranking officers is a matter of conjecture and a surprising amount of newspaper publicity. Of course, the police are completely underfunded and require regular donations to supplement their meagre resources. Everything, and I really mean everything, including entire police stations, have been donated by local foreign businesses … The benefit to the local community of some of these donations is quite clear too …

    4. Did you notice the role of the immigration police in the arrests? Any resident local will be able to tell you the reality of dealing with these boys and girls. If you are a farang with a local business, they are even more to be feared than the local boys or the royal police. There are so many stories around of how they enforce the rules when they find real and supposed infractions that I am sure you can source these yourself.

    Your bottom line in HH is that if you want to live here the safest thing to do is to turn a blind eye and keep a low profile. The problem is that in such a small expat community, its quite difficult to maintain a low profile for long if you become involved in local society or in business. So for anyone with a public profile, turning a blind eye becomes a way of life and anyone who doesn’t turn a blind eye is a disturbance and a annoyance to those who prefer life to be simple … And they are bad for business too! In the case of those who choose to comment publicly on what is going on, the consensus seems to suggest a surprising amount of public approval for the tactics that keep people quiet. It’s a local commonplace that examples must be made, inducements must be provided and censorship must be enforced. Who can you confide in when this is the prevailing view? Who can you trust? Where will you be able to go in town and not have to suffer the attentions of the local bullies? What can you possibly gain from speaking up about the egregious behavior of local thugs?

    Perhaps anonymity and discretion is a condition of existence in this environment? Or, to put it another way, the behavior of the Hua Hin community is no different to those in Phuket, Samui, or Pattaya. Local authorities, businesses and even property price sensitive homeowners will continue to condone appalling behavior if it serves to preserve HH’s reputation as somewhere different in the face of the undeniable evidence that it really isn’t different at all.

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