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	<title>Comments on: Of Fascism, Wannabe-Thais &amp; I Must Love Thaksin</title>
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		<title>By: Thailand Beyond The Fringe</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4664</link>
		<dc:creator>Thailand Beyond The Fringe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=5300#comment-4664</guid>
		<description>[...] far would you go to become Thai? We recently had a bitter-sweet take on those wannabe-Thais who become more Catholic than the Pope. Here&#8217;s a more scientific [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] far would you go to become Thai? We recently had a bitter-sweet take on those wannabe-Thais who become more Catholic than the Pope. Here&#8217;s a more scientific [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Krid</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4579</link>
		<dc:creator>Krid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Surely I&#039;m just theorizing in rather thin air. But how can a (formerly?!) respected journalist compromise his reputation in this way? It&#039;s baffling and for him it can&#039;t be a joke or a facetious game.

Some will utilize the astrological imprimatur to bolster their position in the power game. Thaksin might have belonged to this group. Gen. Sonthi and Sondhi L. might have been on middle ground.

Others might have actually based their decisions on the signs and portents such as the Erawan shrine demolition. This latter group might include certain people at the very top of the hierarchy in Thailand. The bundle of motives for the coup may actually be sparser than most of us think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely I&#8217;m just theorizing in rather thin air. But how can a (formerly?!) respected journalist compromise his reputation in this way? It&#8217;s baffling and for him it can&#8217;t be a joke or a facetious game.</p>
<p>Some will utilize the astrological imprimatur to bolster their position in the power game. Thaksin might have belonged to this group. Gen. Sonthi and Sondhi L. might have been on middle ground.</p>
<p>Others might have actually based their decisions on the signs and portents such as the Erawan shrine demolition. This latter group might include certain people at the very top of the hierarchy in Thailand. The bundle of motives for the coup may actually be sparser than most of us think.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4577</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 05:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Does Thanong know something? Is he disguising his information and his sources by making reference to supernatural matters? He was very definite about those &quot;green uniforms&quot; ...
 
And why are we so shocked that Thai leaders dabble in the supernatural? I don&#039;t believe that you can take the involvement of educated and otherwise rational people in magical thinking at face value. Even if it is true that the leaders of the various factions in Thai politics have been known to take part in some magical rituals and consult astrologers this does not mean that they involve themselves in these rituals in a credulous way. Surely their attraction to the interpreters of the supernatural and holders black/white magic powers lies in the influence of these charlatans over the minds/loyalties of their followers. To ignore these supernatural opinion makers would be to leave open the opportunity of being undermined by them later. By acquiring a supernatural imprimatur the leader is establishing that one important section of the Thai opinion making community is supporting the cause ... When commentators sneer at this kind of behavior they are operating with the luxury of not being a player in the game to acquire power. Once you are involved in this game however, any advantage, no matter how marginal, becomes something to seize upon.

If we are looking for propitious moments then the 9th second of the 9th hour of the 9th day of the 9th month of 2009 must be seriously powerful ... I know its not the Thai calendar but if the Chinese could go 8 crazy for the Olympics then I don&#039;t see why the Thais wouldn&#039;t find something special to do this year ... (Maybe they already have and I am just not aware of it. I understand its great moment for a marriage vow for instance ...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Thanong know something? Is he disguising his information and his sources by making reference to supernatural matters? He was very definite about those &#8220;green uniforms&#8221; &#8230;</p>
<p>And why are we so shocked that Thai leaders dabble in the supernatural? I don&#8217;t believe that you can take the involvement of educated and otherwise rational people in magical thinking at face value. Even if it is true that the leaders of the various factions in Thai politics have been known to take part in some magical rituals and consult astrologers this does not mean that they involve themselves in these rituals in a credulous way. Surely their attraction to the interpreters of the supernatural and holders black/white magic powers lies in the influence of these charlatans over the minds/loyalties of their followers. To ignore these supernatural opinion makers would be to leave open the opportunity of being undermined by them later. By acquiring a supernatural imprimatur the leader is establishing that one important section of the Thai opinion making community is supporting the cause &#8230; When commentators sneer at this kind of behavior they are operating with the luxury of not being a player in the game to acquire power. Once you are involved in this game however, any advantage, no matter how marginal, becomes something to seize upon.</p>
<p>If we are looking for propitious moments then the 9th second of the 9th hour of the 9th day of the 9th month of 2009 must be seriously powerful &#8230; I know its not the Thai calendar but if the Chinese could go 8 crazy for the Olympics then I don&#8217;t see why the Thais wouldn&#8217;t find something special to do this year &#8230; (Maybe they already have and I am just not aware of it. I understand its great moment for a marriage vow for instance &#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Krid</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4569</link>
		<dc:creator>Krid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://absolutelybangkok.com/?p=5300#comment-4569</guid>
		<description>I want to take the &quot;foreigners and Thais can&#039;t understand each other in the matters since 2006&quot; a step further: Thanong&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/07/17/opinion/opinion_30107661.php&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;latest editorial&lt;/a&gt; made me think of another way to explain the series of events. Maybe things are much simpler. Thanong is a prominent journalist and clearly a member of the &quot;elite,&quot; yet he talks about astrologers&#039; predictions as if they were facts. Could this be the key to understanding the decisions that led to the coup? Thanong famously espounded the &quot;pre-emptive coup&quot; theory several times and hasn&#039;t strayed from it yet: Thaksin was planning coup for the 19th or 20th of September 2006 and the military had to move to prevent him. This theory could be based simply on astrology: If the date of the 19th day of the 9th month of the year 2549 is auspicious for one to grab power, it must be for the other one. If it was for Gen. Sonthi, it must have been for Thaksin because they had the same astrological sources. This is all Thanong needs to come up with his theory and hold on to it even under scrutiny from an international readership.

And this stubborn superstition may extend to others, &quot;at the very top of the sakdina hierarchy,&quot; some of whom might have decided that the coup was necessary. So it was not about the Shin deal, Thaksin&#039;s corruption or abuse of  power, it might have been that Thaksin was simply seen as a source of evil black magic, of foreign (Khmer) evil detrimental to other &quot;white,&quot; pure and positive spirits protecting Thailand. The destruction of the Erawan Shrine on March 21, 2006 might have played a role as well. The important monument was destroyed by a madman, but arguably &quot;under Thaksin&#039;s watch&quot;. And Sondhi L. openly blamed Thaksin for having plotted to destroy the statue to maintain power through &quot;black magic&quot;. This might have been picked up by the sakdina leadership and the removal of Thaksin was planned.

So the Democrat&#039;s refusal to take part in elections becomes irrelevant to the coup: They simply didn&#039;t want to lose another election and obstinately refused to give in to Thaksin&#039;s shrewd (and politically astute) ploy to call for another mandate. In this view the Dems are just doing the handiwork of the sakdina leadership, shielding their &quot;white magic&quot; from Thaksin&#039;s &quot;black magic,&quot; without much of  a political mandate from the so-called elites. This is evidenced by their ineffectual government in recent months. If it&#039;s true that superstition was the motivation behind the coup, &quot;Western style,&quot; &quot;political&quot; analysis of events just might go in the wrong direction. And coming elections and their evaluation will be influenced by the sakdina leaderships desire to keep the &quot;shield&quot; intact. This might (again) trump any political mandate for one side of the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to take the &#8220;foreigners and Thais can&#8217;t understand each other in the matters since 2006&#8243; a step further: Thanong&#8217;s <a href="http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/07/17/opinion/opinion_30107661.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">latest editorial</a> made me think of another way to explain the series of events. Maybe things are much simpler. Thanong is a prominent journalist and clearly a member of the &#8220;elite,&#8221; yet he talks about astrologers&#8217; predictions as if they were facts. Could this be the key to understanding the decisions that led to the coup? Thanong famously espounded the &#8220;pre-emptive coup&#8221; theory several times and hasn&#8217;t strayed from it yet: Thaksin was planning coup for the 19th or 20th of September 2006 and the military had to move to prevent him. This theory could be based simply on astrology: If the date of the 19th day of the 9th month of the year 2549 is auspicious for one to grab power, it must be for the other one. If it was for Gen. Sonthi, it must have been for Thaksin because they had the same astrological sources. This is all Thanong needs to come up with his theory and hold on to it even under scrutiny from an international readership.</p>
<p>And this stubborn superstition may extend to others, &#8220;at the very top of the sakdina hierarchy,&#8221; some of whom might have decided that the coup was necessary. So it was not about the Shin deal, Thaksin&#8217;s corruption or abuse of  power, it might have been that Thaksin was simply seen as a source of evil black magic, of foreign (Khmer) evil detrimental to other &#8220;white,&#8221; pure and positive spirits protecting Thailand. The destruction of the Erawan Shrine on March 21, 2006 might have played a role as well. The important monument was destroyed by a madman, but arguably &#8220;under Thaksin&#8217;s watch&#8221;. And Sondhi L. openly blamed Thaksin for having plotted to destroy the statue to maintain power through &#8220;black magic&#8221;. This might have been picked up by the sakdina leadership and the removal of Thaksin was planned.</p>
<p>So the Democrat&#8217;s refusal to take part in elections becomes irrelevant to the coup: They simply didn&#8217;t want to lose another election and obstinately refused to give in to Thaksin&#8217;s shrewd (and politically astute) ploy to call for another mandate. In this view the Dems are just doing the handiwork of the sakdina leadership, shielding their &#8220;white magic&#8221; from Thaksin&#8217;s &#8220;black magic,&#8221; without much of  a political mandate from the so-called elites. This is evidenced by their ineffectual government in recent months. If it&#8217;s true that superstition was the motivation behind the coup, &#8220;Western style,&#8221; &#8220;political&#8221; analysis of events just might go in the wrong direction. And coming elections and their evaluation will be influenced by the sakdina leaderships desire to keep the &#8220;shield&#8221; intact. This might (again) trump any political mandate for one side of the other.</p>
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		<title>By: oneditorial</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4570</link>
		<dc:creator>oneditorial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Whatever that person tried to label you, I still like you; I mean your blog, even though you deleted my comment once!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever that person tried to label you, I still like you; I mean your blog, even though you deleted my comment once!</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://absolutelybangkok.com/of-fascism-wannabe-thais-i-must-love-thaksin/comment-page-1/#comment-4565</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oops ... It&#039;s probably not the only spelling mistake. I&#039;m not a professional commentator or academic. My conscious motivation for writing about this is that I would like to arrive at some degree of clarity. I think it&#039;s very important to follow what is happening because, to someone who once read a lot about the English revolution, what is happening now seems to approximate a pre-revolutionary situation. I read in English about Thailand and I&#039;d be the first to acknowledge that my knowledge of Thailand is quite shallow. I also find it immensely difficult to understand the way that educated Thai&#039;s conceptualize political events. Last night at the FCCT there was a lot of cognitive reinforcement taking place amongst the foreigners. Chris Baker I think actually stated that are still only a relatively small group of foreign observers interested in what is happening here. Their analytical approach is modern and informative but doesn&#039;t really bridge the chasm between what they may think is happening and what educated Thai people conceive to be taking place. I&#039;ve seen explanations for the reactionary nature of Thai NGO&#039;s and academics that focus on their narrow sectional interests but I don&#039;t see much about the huge amount of &quot;Buddhist&quot; traditional analysis which is what most decent Thais seem take seriously. Up until now this crucial segment of Thai society has put most of its weight firmly behind the forces of reaction. That&#039;s a complete break with past progressive social movements that advocated reform.

Sakdina society, Buddhist mentality, traditional world view ... It&#039;s obvious to me that the broad mass of the urban population here are highly aware of what is happening and defining their own positions on the basis of some factors that are outside of the framework of analysis that is currently being applied by foreign commentators. There&#039;s a book about 1992 and its aftermath called &quot;The Funeral Casino.&quot; I have never been able to get through it. The going was to heavy for me and the prose too dry but it&#039;s that kind of analysis that probably carries with it the key to understanding what&#039;s happening here now.

Btw I have just been reading Red vs. Yellow at lunch. I agree with Chris Baker. It deserves to be ranked with the other book as an iconoclastic breakthrough in describing what is really happening in Thailand. White Orchid Press deserves high praise for publishing it too. On a visit to the National Museum recently I stumbled  across White Orchid&#039;s second volume of Mulder&#039;s 70&#039;s memoirs. It&#039;s probably fortunate that Police Colonel Watanasak Mungkijakarndee has not been informed of the contents of this volume. If Harry Nicolaides could go down for his novel then some of the comments in this book are fanning those flames.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8230; It&#8217;s probably not the only spelling mistake. I&#8217;m not a professional commentator or academic. My conscious motivation for writing about this is that I would like to arrive at some degree of clarity. I think it&#8217;s very important to follow what is happening because, to someone who once read a lot about the English revolution, what is happening now seems to approximate a pre-revolutionary situation. I read in English about Thailand and I&#8217;d be the first to acknowledge that my knowledge of Thailand is quite shallow. I also find it immensely difficult to understand the way that educated Thai&#8217;s conceptualize political events. Last night at the FCCT there was a lot of cognitive reinforcement taking place amongst the foreigners. Chris Baker I think actually stated that are still only a relatively small group of foreign observers interested in what is happening here. Their analytical approach is modern and informative but doesn&#8217;t really bridge the chasm between what they may think is happening and what educated Thai people conceive to be taking place. I&#8217;ve seen explanations for the reactionary nature of Thai NGO&#8217;s and academics that focus on their narrow sectional interests but I don&#8217;t see much about the huge amount of &#8220;Buddhist&#8221; traditional analysis which is what most decent Thais seem take seriously. Up until now this crucial segment of Thai society has put most of its weight firmly behind the forces of reaction. That&#8217;s a complete break with past progressive social movements that advocated reform.</p>
<p>Sakdina society, Buddhist mentality, traditional world view &#8230; It&#8217;s obvious to me that the broad mass of the urban population here are highly aware of what is happening and defining their own positions on the basis of some factors that are outside of the framework of analysis that is currently being applied by foreign commentators. There&#8217;s a book about 1992 and its aftermath called &#8220;The Funeral Casino.&#8221; I have never been able to get through it. The going was to heavy for me and the prose too dry but it&#8217;s that kind of analysis that probably carries with it the key to understanding what&#8217;s happening here now.</p>
<p>Btw I have just been reading Red vs. Yellow at lunch. I agree with Chris Baker. It deserves to be ranked with the other book as an iconoclastic breakthrough in describing what is really happening in Thailand. White Orchid Press deserves high praise for publishing it too. On a visit to the National Museum recently I stumbled  across White Orchid&#8217;s second volume of Mulder&#8217;s 70&#8217;s memoirs. It&#8217;s probably fortunate that Police Colonel Watanasak Mungkijakarndee has not been informed of the contents of this volume. If Harry Nicolaides could go down for his novel then some of the comments in this book are fanning those flames.</p>
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