The Anti-Anti-Government Protest
What sabotage or civil disobedience are our alleged liberators of the People’s Alliance for Democracy planning next. On day 6 of the “final solution” there was a carnival atmosphere over at Government House compound. Quite a contrast to the clashes with riot police just the day before. Even though the demission of embattled Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej looks more distant again.
The premier stubbornly refuses to resign and coalition allies are sticking together. The government, they say, will stay on and Samak remains the prime minister. Et voilà, look there, anti-anti-government protesters start gathering at Sanam Luang. Within a few hours a few thousand people of the infamous anti-coup, pro Thaksin Nor Por Kor were there – calling themselves “the silent majority.”
Wanna bet who’s able to gather more people. Out are the “red shirts” of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship DAAC against the “yellow shirts” of the PAD. When police can’t get the job done they will get the job done?
The stakes are rising and we may still not like badmouthing Samak. But so far he’s pedantically sticking to the law whereas his rather anarchy-driven opponents break the law by the minute. All the rest has been said and analyzed. You’ve made up your mind, you’ve chosen a side. I’ve never liked Samak nor his mindset nor his past. But chapeau for him sticking to his guns so far.
After a Thaksin-nominee a PAD-nominee government? Reasoning and debate strengthen Samak, while the audience with His Majesty gave Samak not only a moral boost. Samak feels reaffirmed. Who knows, maybe there’s a kind of national government on the cards at the joint session of the houses. But it’s dead simple. Samak’s future is down to further mob violence. It’s time Samak offers something.
Ah, running out of violent ideas for a day, the PAD plans to sue police for damages and the loss of protesters’ property caused by police at Friday’s Makkhawan bridge raid.
Never mind the PAD’s slow transformation of Government House into a big huge public toilet. It’s you, the taxpayer, who will make it all right again.
And another thing crossed my mind: PAD core leader Sondhi’s “final solution.” Heard that before? It’s the exact English translation of Hitler’s Endlösung. Farfetched, way over the top, I know. Get it here, Not The Nation’s Sondhi-interview on the final solution.
And in case you’ve missed it, here’s our Those Führer-like PAD diatribes.
I’m not saying. I’m just saying.
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Reasoning and debate strengthen Samak
I’m not so sure about that when all he can say is “we were elected” and refuses to even acknowledge the legitimate concerns of the protesters that Samak/PPP exists only to exonerate Thaksin/TRT, get back the loot and manipulate institutions in their favor.
“Reasoning and debate” under the current situation, I must add hobby. Otherwise we canonize a “people’s putsch.” What a great precedent.
The use and manipulation of institutions in Thai politics is not an invention of neither TRT nor PPP. A success would be to lessen the abuses.
Who’s using and manipulating the courts now in regards to the proceedings against Thaksin is a whole new other question.
BangkokDan
Dan: Can you give more details on how the courts have been manipulated against Thaksin?
(In fact think it would fit more into the lessening the abuses category, than the manupulation category)
I have posted some more thoughts on the current PAD v’s Samak standoff here: Good or Bad for Democracy?
It’s not that anyone would have specific proof or material on that. We all noted the sudden surge in certain justice while other similar cases against people of different alliances still don’t have to sacrifice a minute of sleep.
It’s not all a one-way use and manipulation under Samak Co. Ltd.
BangkokDan
I’m for getting them all, but the Thaksin cases are so high profile that to whitewash them would be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of rule of law to prevail over rule by law.
That’s why I see it as a case of lessening the abuses, rather than more manipulation.
The rot has to stop somewhere!
I commend Samak for his restraint (whatever the reason), but even after today’s TV appearance I still have not seen any reports of Samak addressing the legitimate concerns of the PAD rank & file.
Is that because the media is deficient, or Samak has failed to address those concerns, and wants it all boiled down to a Bush type scenario: If your not with us you must be against us?
btw, can we get a preview screen for posting comments here?
Preview added.
Maybe there is no hope. We witness the formal democracy’s traps.
Thailand calls a system democracy that has in place the relevant forms of democracy but is not managed democratically.
Some sort of guided democracy may be a way out.
BangkokDan
Thanks for the preview screen.
Do you mean a Singapore type guided democracy?
Some would say that’s where Thaksin was headed, and look how that’s ended!
The only hope I have is that over time (decades?) the masses come to the realization that they need politicians with integrity – if that does not happen, them IMO there is no hope and the country is sitting on a powder keg, just waiting to explode.
Sorry to be so pessimistic.
Plastic bags have become the latest must-have items … for the brainwashed – see the POST’s saccharine non-corpus-mentis article on the fools who are fouling the streets, using free electricity etc. New hope arrives as DAAD assembles …
hobby, I find it incredible that there is an immature (not you personally) expectation that democracy means elections without influence of the voters. The American system of elections may not “buy” votes per se, however politicians promise many things to many people to get their vote. We have many groups lobbying all levels of government constantly. That is no different than what goes on here. The nature of politics is to make promises to help the people. Which people? Which ever people you are in front of at the moment. Conversely, the people are not obligated to vote for you even if you pay/promise them. I have to wonder how many people the PAD accuses of being bought would have voted for TRT/PPP anyway. Does the PAD have proof that the voters voted for who they were paid to vote for?
PAD is a bunch of fading, old men out to grab as much power as they can to increase their coffers. They are no more concerned about the welfare of Thailand than the man in the moon. Remember, what you fight most vehemently against is what you become! PAD leaders have certainly crossed over the line.
Enough of this “I’m not saying, I’m just saying” crap already!!!
Oops, forgot it in the latest post …
My Trinkian way of saying “But I don’t give a hoot!”
BangkokDan
Caring about crap:
I’m not saying either, just saying I don’t give a crap!
I try to tell myself I don’t give a hoot, and its only a hobby to me, but deep down I think I do really care as I want things to get better.
Bongo: Was your “crap” comment aimed at me?
If it was, I would be interested to hear why?
At least I am trying to think of a reasonable compromise that does not bring down democracy, and promotes good governance by addressing the legitimate concerns of a large number of constituents.
This crisis could have been over much sooner had Samak & PPP backed off the constutional amendments and instead used a consultative process involving parliament and public referendum.
At the same time they should obviously be dismissing (with proper explanation) the unreasonable and outlandish demands of the PAD.
Had the government shown themslves to be competent and reasonable, they would have already been able to disperse the protesters with appropriate force such as tear gas & water cannons etc.
SBThailand: I take you point and much of my comments apply to democracy generally, not just Thailand.
Thailand is not the only country that lacks politicians with integrity and humility!
hobby no worries that c-comment was aimed at me.
BangkokDan
hobby, I tend to be harsh with my writing style, so bear with me.
I grew up in (& still love) one of the most politically corrupt states in America. Someone mentioned Huey Long. Yep, that’s us. If our citizens reacted the way the PAD has everytime some shady politician was put in power, we would stay in a constant state of siege. We have had generations of dead people still voting in some areas of our state. Having said all that, do I think it is okay for a democracy to work that way?
NO! It is wrong, but trying to bully an elected offical out of office as the PAD has done is trying to cheat the majority of voters out of their power. The PAD can not win and haven’t won in general elections. The only way they have power is to try to have an appointed government. They have set up an “us or them” situation by hiding behind the “royalist” tag. They are not royalist as they claim. The King has made it fairly clear that he doesn’t want Samak to resign. I am sure that if the King did want Samak to resign, he would have already done so. If Samak resigns, then every Tom, Dick, or Harry with a grip against future governments will try to pressure the government out of power the way PAD has. Thailand has depended for too long on this way to settle things.
Furthermore, everyone is “forgeting” that when the current constitution was being pitched by the military juanta, they sold it as a living document whose short-comings they expected to be ammended in the future. People voted to accept the constitution based on the ability to ammend it later. MANY authorities warned that there would be trouble, but it went ahead anyway. Well, the future is now and look at all the trouble.
Our current governor has finally been able through political office term limits and a few other changes, pass some new ethics laws. Needless to say, he isn’t a very popular person with the old fox politicans.
PAD leaders are old foxes. Don’t trust the fox in sheep’s skin!
No worries SB & Dan.
Just to clarify:
-I don’t trust the PAD leaders, nor do I trust the PPP leaders (or the other coalition party leaders)
-I have never supported the PAD call for Samak to resign.
-I think many of the PAD claims are outlandish, although I disagree with claims that the protesters are there because they are fascists.
I think most have genuine concerns about where PPP are headed regarding the constitution and I also think if the PPP had handled things differently things would have not gotten to this stage.
So far, apart from the restraint from violence, I still think the government handling of this matter has been disappointing, and I have shown how the matter could easily be resolved if they really wanted to.
In addition to not trusting old foxes, I also don’t trust anyone who never acknowleges their own failings, or is never prepared to give some ground.
True, but what kind of ground can the govt give. They have been elected by the majority. It really is that simple. I’m an American, so maybe it is simple to me and I am being sincere when I say it is simple. I’m not thrilled with the PPP or Samak either, but I don’t like GW Bush either. The results of elections are what they are and in a Democracy, sometimes your guys wins and sometimes your guy loses. In my career, I work with/for politicians. I can tell you from an inside point of view that the old saying is absolutely true.
“If you aren’t a crook when you get elected, you will be when you leave your post.”
In order to do some good, you have to compromise. The PAD/Thaksin are the same animal out for only themselves. The only difference is Thaksin was elected and PAD would rather be appointed.
SB: But what kind of ground can the govt give.
A reasonable solution is here: http://www.nganadeeleg.blogspot.com
The government does not have to give much ground, it just has to be more accommodating with its plans to amend the constitution, publicize how reasonable they have been, set a final deadline for dispersal on that basis, and then they would be well justified in clearing the area with appropriate force (tear gas is probably the fall back position).
Hobby, while I would have agreed with you about those measures in July, I can not agree today. I think the situation has gone too far (even before the violence) and nothing the government says will ever be good enough for the PAD leaders. They want power over the country and only that will satisfy them. How many times have we heard over the last week that “today is the day!”? Then they find some excuse to stay. I am glad Samak finally called for emergency law. It was over due. Once again, and one of the ambassador’s echoed this in the BP, threatening to cut electricity/water and invading government compounds would be looked upon in most countries as an act of terrorism and be dealt with swiftly by the military. I applaud Samak for putting up with this in a non-violent way. PAD has had plenty of opportunities to retreat gracefully, but those stubborn old men would rather hide behind women and children for their own gain. They could have saved face, but choose not to.