The Big Mango Index ’08
You sure heard of The Economist’s Big Mac index. Arguably the world’s quite most accurate financial indicator based on the well known fast food item.
absolutelyBangkok.com takes the Big Mac index a step further: It creates the – slightly different – Big Mango index. An index created to tell you where to best do your daily shopping in Bangkok.
To tell you the good news ahead: Undisputed loser of the first Big Mango index is Tesco/Lotus.
The clear winner? Gourmet Market at Emporium/Paragon, where you pay less for quite more.
A fair compromise? Big C.
An overall conclusion? Price differences are minor. A testimony of minimal profit margins.
The Big Mango index though will not be based on a Big Mac, but a collection of daily food item here. Onions, potatoes, milk, Heineken. Established food products to properly reflect inflation and related economic factors.
To create the Big Mango index we visited 6 supermarkets:
Gourmet Market (Emporium & Paragon), Big C, Villa Market, Carrefour, Tesco/Lotus and Jusco. Did not do Central, Foodland and Tops – perhaps next year. Assuming the survey is sufficiently representative.
For this our first survey, January ’08 is considered “ground zero” of the Big Mango indexation.
In the future, adjusted by inflation and revaluations of the baht, we shall see where that can of Heineken carries the index.
Our shopping basket to determine the index consists of 10 basic food items:
- 1kg potatoes
- 1kg onions
- 1kg ground beef
- 1kg big fresh white shrimps
- 100 grams of smoked salmon
- 1 pack of Orchid butter (227 grams)
- 1 pack of Foremost pasteurized plain milk (946ml)
- 1 dozen eggs (Omega brand)
- 1lt of Bertolli extra virgin olive oil
- 6 cans of Heineken
Fruits, bakery items and toiletries are not included, as their variety is too large or price differences are too minimal.
We furthermore did not buy special promotions, but paid full prices. And we’re no snobs, but we only carry a discount card for Emporium/Paragon. You’ll see why!
Let’s start then.
At Jusco the basket sets you back 1,586 baht.
Don’t buy imported items at Jusco. A bottle of Bertolli olive oil costs 516 baht – you can get it for 455 baht at Carrefour. Overpriced as well Jusco’s smoked salmon – roughly 30% more pricey than even at Villa Market. Quite all right Jusco’s selection of fresh seafood.
Villa Market belongs to the more upmarket places, which is made instantly clear by its price of 470 baht for 1kg of average white shrimp. Villa’s basket: 1,648 baht. Villa offers excellent choices of imported goods. Basic food items though such as potatoes and onions twice as expensive as elsewhere. But Villa, as a rarity in Bangkok, would have organic eggs, an impossibility at other major retailers.
Carrefour with its ambiance of a train station is no shoppers paradise. But what if you can save some bucks for a few extra beers in the evening? Carrefour’s basket comes at 1,537 baht. Excellent are the special deals at the French chain, such as 65 baht for 1kg of ground pork or 9 baht for 1kg of onions. A winner as well Carrefour’s own extra virgin olive oil at 379 baht the liter. But that ambiance …
Tesco/Lotus? Now that’s a supermarket where you have to be forced into. Not only do they have no smoked salmon, their fresh white shrimp were of most desolate quality and the loudspeakers hyper loud. Tesco/Lotus asks for 1,396 baht. Sounds like a bargain. But no smoked salmon included and the shopping experience at this British-Thai chain is rather torturous. Not necessarily again!
At Big C we lay down 1,425 baht. Not too shabby! Shopping is unspectacular, but pleasant. Worlds above Tesco/Lotus. A bargain the Omega eggs: 46 baht the dozen, compared to 60 baht at most other places. If you got Big C near you, not a bad choice.
Finally, the grand Gourmet Market.
Can you believe it? A lousy 1,508 baht they want for the basket. Less than at Jusco or Carrefour. And at Gourmet Market you enjoy shopping fancy foods with style and joy. Ever tried the marinated olives?
The fresh market is glorious, the choices are unending. You get everything at Gourmet Market – and a 5% discount with the Prestige Card. If you ever wondered where to shop: Gourmet Market makes it a complete no-brainer. And don’t forget: At Gourmet Market you can buy freshly roasted, ungrounded coffee. For the perfect ristretto at home.
And that’s it with absolutelyBangkok.com’s first Big Mango index.
Basic value for the next indexation will be the 34-baht-Heineken-can.
Where do you think the Big Mango index stands in a year? Remember the price of extra virgin olive oil some years ago in Thailand. Below 300 baht a bottle. Now near 500. Even though the baht became much stronger. Where’s the logic?
Better start stocking up with your preferred goodies.
Addendum: You may also want to read Gosh Bangkok, You’re Pricey!
Thanks for the useful information!
Really interesting and a very good idea – I’d never have bet on this year’s winner for sure! Surprising! Will get me one of these Prestige Cards soon! Thanks!
Wow I never shop at Emporium, it’s ridiculously expensive. Last week for the first time in ages, I actually went in to get some vegetables. A bunch of kale that would be 6 baht at Tesco was 37 baht at Emporium!!! Huh! It’s a rip off. I shop at Tesco, and Carrefour with an occasional trip to Villa for a pork pie. Villa is a complete rip off though. The pie is the only thing I ever buy there and there stuff is always outdated and funky looking. Yuk!
Fair enough Fable. Some veggies at Emporium are more expensive.
But: 1kg of potatoes at Emporium is 45 baht, at Tesco/Lotus 42 baht, Carrefour 42 baht.
1kg of onions at Emporium: 29 baht. At Tesco/Lotus 16 baht, Carrefour 31 baht.
Your discounters are no real winners I’m afraid.
The survey shows a general comparison. Astonishing fact: Gourmet Market is fairly priced.
I’m furthermore willing to pay a slight premium for real freshness and organic origin. I trust those “green” labels at Carrefour or Tesco/Lotus even less.
BangkokDan
Dan, how about a “One Year Later” repeat of this shopping exercise as a gauge of inflation?
-A.F.
IknowIknowIknow A.F., find no time, am delaying and delaying it, was hoping nobody would notice.
A highly interesting Big Mango Index is awaiting us, even though inflation peaked in the last months of ’08.
I shall find some time, shall I. Am the born anti-shopper, that’s why …
BangkokDan
[...] but here we go, the Big Mango index ‘09 is ready. For what it’s worth. Compared to last year’s virgin ‘08 index a Heineken got only slightly more expensive, but whereas a pack of Orchid butter cost some 48 baht [...]
Live form NYC
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the comparison list is inconclusive. Let me explain, as much as it may be necessary to factor in items like fish, beef, or vegetables, too much variation in price depends due to quality and freshness of the product. If you buy fruit at Paragon be ready to take out sever ATM cards, it is that perverted and obscene, but in all fairness its also due to the quality or place the product origin, for example I went to buy some tomatoes, well to my shock they were 180 baht for 2 very small tomatoes, that were imported. The same quality in a typical US city would cost less then 5 baht.
On the other hand a box of branded organic cereal or branded olive oil was priced substantially lower at Paragon, then all other stores. Most branded products are reasonably priced at Paragon and most likely newer.
If you want a real index based on different stores the may I suggest only list branded items that can be correctly compared. And olive oil is tricky, if it is old stock, then the price drops significantly. Check the date.
If you wish to include items like fish, beef or vegetables, then you need to diversify the list with as many as many as 100 items correctly balance the sheet.
BTW, Bangkok is totally far out of any logical perspective when it comes to prices, nothing makes any sense, They just make prices as they go depending how greedy they feel on a given day. A can of coke in BKK that should cost a 1/4 or a fraction of what it costs in the U.S., due to LOWER labor and material cost in BKK cost the same or more.
Average non-sale U.S. price:
Twelve to 18 months ago Coca Cola and other 12 ounce coke products cost around $5.00 per case of 24. They now cost $10 per 24 can case. That is 0.4266 cents per can or times 34 baht = or 14.50 baht for a U.S. can.
Now that’s real Thai Capitalism!
I am always told BKK is inexpensive when it comes to food, PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK!
If I bought food as I do in the U.S., I would need at least $600 Dollars per week, or 80,000 baht per month, wow, wow, wow!!!
All imports and quality goods are extremely expensive,
My average 22.00 bottle of wine would not cost me 748 baht, it would cost me over 2,000 baht.
My Häagen Dazs ice cream that I only buy by the case (on sale) would not cost me $6.50 for every two pint containers (normal price is $6.00 each -or about 200 baht) it would cost 400+ baht each in BKK.
LOW GRADE U.S. quality beef sells for astronomical prices in BKK and high quality beef at over 3,000-5,000 baht per kg. this is untouchable unless you rob banks for a living.
Coming to BKK every year is a trouser-emptying experience!
Interesting, thanks Enzo.
I always went for the cheapest local variety, with the exception of the salmon.
Coke’s a staple food in the U.S., that may explain. Take our rice prices for the 5kg bag.
But that’s what I always tell friends arriving here who expect to come by cheaply and get everything. Bangkok’s a darn expensive place. Take the rents. Yes, if they’d go purely Thai with noodles every day pak soi. Wine here? A crime. Each time I arrive from abroad there are at least six bottles of red in my bags.
And just came back from Europe. With about 8kg cheese in the bags.
BangkokDan
Sorry I forgot to mention cheese.
I the first time I bought some Manchego cheese sufficient for ONLY a nice late evening snack with a nice bottle of wine, after walking out of the store I reflected on the price and said to my self … Did I just pay $20.00 for a small bite of cheese?
So much for buying Sassicaia or Tenuta San Guido Sassicaia when I’m in BKK.
OK wise shoppers, not to promote Paragon, but I get a package of salmon that is very good and only 199 baht. It comes in with a gold back foil, I do not remember the name, but it’s the best value I have found. Makes terrific sandwiches.
It’s a wonder. Thai food is the best food there is. That one would take issue with the prices for imported farang food when Thai food is better, better for you and very inexpensive even when cooking for yourself is laughable. You’ve lived here how long and haven’t learned how to cook Thai food?
That you spend more for such necessities as wine, booze, beer and coca-cola than a working class Thai family spends feeding a growing family AND have the temerity to complain reveals much.
For vegetables you can do no better than the market next to your neighborhood Wat. Even if you live in the tourist/expat/Duhmerican’t slum area you may have to travel less distance than to Paragon or Emporium to get fresher less expensive quality veggies and have the added benefit of getting to know some regular Thai people. Imagine that!
If you must eat farang food kindly consider that you’re making a lifestyle choice. The same lifestyle choice you made when you chose to get taken down hard to rent that oh so snooty serviced apartment in the middle of the tourist/expat/Duhamerican’t part of town.
One comment complained about paying farang price for goods when Thai labor costs are so much less. One imagines that you don’t consider that when you frequent one of the many farang owned establishments that charge Duhmerican’t or European prices for that Ettoufee or Shepard’s pie! I’m just sayin’! It’s your choice.
Buck up! Enjoy the fact that you live a lavish privileged lifestyle, that you waste more money every month than many Thai families have available to feed and nurture their family and take responsibility for the decisions you make.
I usually do not rebottle or discuss issues of political nature, but I will make an exception.
With all due respect, a statement such as “Thai food is the best food there is” totally invalidates and discredits a post. I can say Italian food is best, pointing out best wines, olive oils, pasta, pizza, cheese … but then the French can say French wine is better, the Dutch can say they have the best cheese …. It’s a no-win situation even if I bring up the fact that several world research centers conducted studies on the “Mediterranean diet” as on of the most healthy diets in the world. Yes and that includes sever hundred studies on the positive effects of wine.
Taste is subjective, and if you spend 20+ years eating something then that what’s best for your taste.
As for the price of “necessities as wine, booze, beer and coca-cola” this is a Thai problem related to taxation, and also greed.
There is absolutely no reason that similar products manufactured in Thailand at significantly lower wage, production costs and raw materials should have a price structure that is equivalent to that of countries whose employees are paid fair wages relative to the profits of the company and economy.
If you love Thailand then you need to understand that a non-level playing felid is not fair or ethical, and that average Thai worker who work for a Thai company in most cases cannot buy or patronize the very place they work in due to such astronomically high profit margins.
Gentrification needs to take place slowly and fairly. A worker working for a company should deserve to be able to afford the very product he makes.
The cost to implement high-tech in Thailand, like mobile service or internet service, cost a mere fraction of what it costs to develop and implement in the U.S. An example is the stock market computer system or electronic banking system that cost developed countries billions and billions of dollars to develop. Then a newly developing country buys the technology for less then a fraction of the cost, or almost nothing, yet they charge the people higher prices for the services (like the rates of cell phone use) than that of the U.S, while the employees are paid 1/10 the ware.
This is not capitalism; this is exploitation of the people.
Very little common sense and too much greed is a significant problem in Thailand. Like the bus leasing project, and the audacity to want to raise the fare to 30 baht. Then this would be approximately 1/10 of the income earned by someone making 300 baht per day or equivalent of 9,000 baht per month if they worked every day.
In the U.S. this would look like this:
The lowest wage of non-skilled workers is $7.25 per hour x 9 hours = $65.25 a day.
65.25 divided by 10 = bus fare of $6.25
The highest city bus fare in the U.S. is about $2.00
The bus driver is paid an average of about $20,000 or 680,000 per year in the U.S.
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Bus-Driver-l-Poughkeepsie,-NY.html
Compounded to the problem you have no retirement benefits for the worker and up until recently not even any medical assistance. This is in part the conflict and issue Thailand is facing with the political unrest. The elite just doesn’t get this.
Ask any farang who comes from a wealthy environment, like NYC or Milan, and they will tell you it’s unbelievable to see $100,000 expensive cars parked on every block when you have over 50 million other people who are living on several hundred baht a day.
Ok, lets say your premise is correct. If your preference is for Italian food why aren’t you in Italy? Really. If food is that important to you either suck it up and pay through the nose for your Italian diet while here in Thailand or adapt and enjoy Thai food while here thereby saving enough money to make it home to Italy more often if that is your desire.
As for the rest perhaps you’re younger than I am. I love this place. Loving something or someone isn’t about doing so in spite of its or their faults its about loving for both the good and bad equally. It is what it is. They are what they are. Think back on a girlfriend or spouse who tried to change you. How did it make you feel? Like most you probably didn’t like it too much.
What makes you think Thais appreciate your criticisms? How do you feel when an old man like me criticizes your complaints? Not too good judging from the opening caveat where you stated: I usually do not rebottle[sic] or discuss issues of political nature, but I will make an exception.
Buck up. Man up. Grow a pair. You choose to eat what is an expensive diet here in Thailand. You choose. No one is holding a gun to your head.
Relax. Enjoy the benefits of living in this great country.
Ask any farang who comes from a wealthy environment, like NYC or Milan, and they will tell you it’s unbelievable to see $100,000 expensive cars parked on every block when you have over 50 million other people who are living on several hundred baht a day.
How about seeing $1m, $30m and even $100m yachts in every marina and boat yard from Palm Beach to Miami? How about the tens of millions of hardworking Americans who are losing their homes and the tens of millions of Americans who are living below poverty level?
Disparity of income and opportunity aren’t unique to Thailand.
It occurs to me that the reason so many farang are hyper critical of Thailand is because they are unable to freely express the same misgivings about their countries when they’re there without fear of being shouted down or labeled a traitor. It’s easy to criticize Thailand and most of the farang they hang out with all spout the same nonsense. They’re a long way from home and want desperately to fit in with their clique. Their tribe …
YES, this is true, “tens of millions of hardworking Americans who are losing their homes” …
Because they were negligent with financial issues, getting more than what they should have on credit.
YES, “tens of millions of Americans who are living below poverty level” …
BUT one thing that can be said about the U.S.A. is that everyone, no matter who they are or how poor they are, has the possibility and opportunity and chance to achieve dreams.
People who work hard and make good decisions are given every opportunity to reach for the stars. They have an equal chance to possibly one day buy that $5m yacht or the new Ferrari. It is difficult or impossible in most other countries to do so, and statistically the people who achieve that in other countries do it by sweat and toil of less fortunate people who are abused and taken advantage of.
It does not work that way in the U.S. If you have a dream then not only can your dream come true, but also the very people around you that work for with you will prosper in a significant way.
Poor emigrants come to the U..S from countries all over the world, without even understanding the English language, and become millionaires, and once admitted, they have been welcomed without non-sensical visa issues that would make any sane person go crazy.
Very few countries can say this.
The U.S. is by no means perfect. But it is a level playing field.
And I don’t live in Thailand. I live in New York City, but do come to Thailand every year because I do like the Thai people and the way of life, but I also recognize the issues at hand.
The Horatio Algiers lie is the most pernicious of Duhmericn’t lies. Yet more rah rah rah sis boom bah flag waving nonsense. Sad. Really.
That was foreseeable, we’ll have to leave it with bosunj‘s overly constructive, holistic roundup, if not futile finale. Spin or not, thread closed for a continuation of the same old argument.
BangkokDan