Thitinan On Continuity & Change

16 Responses to “Thitinan On Continuity & Change”

1. Tweets that mention Thitinan On Continuity & Change -- Topsy.com on June 4th, 2010 5:21 pm

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2. Vichai N on June 4th, 2010 7:42 pm

   Thitinan had coherently delivered his challenge to the Thai people. Our ability to embrace change(s) will determine whether or not we could continue as a peaceable unified nation in the years ahead.

   The challenge of “embracing change” rests more on the shoulders and hearts of Thailand’s middle class simply because we can afford to, we are conscience-bound to give more:

   (a) This nonsense of all political directives should be coming from the Bangkok center has to change. Provinces should be allowed to elect their governors, mayors, police chiefs and members of parliament.

   (b) There must be a deliberate recalibrating of how the nation’s tax money is allocated with due bias to increased share to provinces/areas sorely in need of development funds for education, agriculture or infrastructure.

   (c) Obviously a new constitution is needed that truly answers to the aspirations of our rural brothers … If the representation in the constitutional rewrite had to be biased to favor rural representation in the constitutional rewrite, so be it.

   (d) The reconciliation roadmap should comprehend above and more. There must be an open national debate where Thai people could listen to all the political, social and economic issues that needed to be addressed … to identify the source(s) of the discontent that led to the anger that led to the violent rampage culminating in the very recent devastation of arson and deaths at Ratchaprasong. We have to answer the question WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

   Quality comment. You agree? 15  0

3. GeGee on June 4th, 2010 9:41 pm

   Vichai, as one of the few posters who care to identify themselves as Thai and who regularly contribute to Dan’s blogs, you obviously have insights others don’t. Please don’t think I am patronizing you when I say that – it is true.

   Therefore, I would like your comments, as to whether or not, you think the points you outline in your post, can be addressed in an open and transparent way, with proper discussion by ALL Thai people?

   If so, do you have any idea, as to how long this might take.

   I ask this, because I think the points Thitinan mentions are to me, the most relative issues Thailand is currently facing.

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4. Occasional Poster on June 5th, 2010 9:47 am

   Vichai. For what little it is worth I agree with all you write above. However, I think one extra thing needs to be added for what you propose to work. In some way, the power of the local feudal lords needs to be broken. Right now this issue is not even addressed as the groups organising the opposition and the protests are largely controlled by these people. It is the missing part of the debate on empowering the rural poor. Without addressing this issue one can take as much money and power from Bangkok but the rural poor will remain every bit as oppressed as they are today. Imho

   I also have no particular idea of how to address this issue.

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5. StanG on June 5th, 2010 10:32 am

   What’s this obsession with Thitinan?

   Yes, he is the most quoted Thai academic, but not in academic journals – he is quoted in foreign media.

   If the term “foreign media” elicit some sort of higher standard – the second most quoted Thai was Giles Ungpakorn.

   Mainstream Thai society pays no attention to either of them. When Giles fled to England many locals were going “Giles who? Ahh, the guy who doesn’t love the king.”

   As for this particular program – Thitinan himself didn’t say much, most of it was the presenter paraphrasing him and there was nothing we haven’t heard from Thitinan before, his angle is well known and has been debated for years.

   Basically he refuses to even acknowledge the possibility that red shirt agenda was manipulated by the leaders and takes everything they say at the face value and as a genuine grassroots voice.

   Personally, I noticed Thitinan never raised his eyes to look either into the camera or at presenter’s face as if he had some form of autism or was ashamed of his own words. Don’t know which explanation is more damning, hope there’s a third one.

   Hot debate. What do you think? 6  9

6. Occasional Poster on June 5th, 2010 1:12 pm

   StanG that is a good point. Old Thitinan has gone from peddlign a bunch of one liners and soundbites round Channel News Asia to being some kind of heavyweight expert interviewed by all kinds of western media. Funnily enough based on analysis which if you study it over a period has more often been wrong than right although he is by no means unique in that respect. I doubt anyone who knows how foreign media works would think it elicited any form of standard whatsoever.

   I also guess those foreign journalists are impressed by the English of Thitinan as much as the way his analysis fits the stroy they wwant to create. After all loads of these froeign media employee types managed to stand around Rachaparasong for aeons thinking that when the dudes on the stage were saying they wanted to have Thaksins babies and that Abhisit was the devil incarnate and listing those that real red shirts would rip limb from limb that they were really talking about redistribution of wealth and moving into a more democratic society where everyone would equally be born with a silver spoon in their mouth, so I guess at times this Thai language thing gets confusing for those journalists. After all it couldnt just be that journalists are lazy careerists who want to be noticed and will actually just write whatever story will sell best regardless of truth, which brings us back to nice quoteable locals who speak lovely English who will always supply exactly what you want however detached from reality it is.

   Thitinan though is not the only one to build a career based on Thailand’s current tragedies. Other examples that spring instantly to mind include that Khi Kwai dude who went through a crash course in Thai language and culture to reinvent himself as an academic expert on the country a few years ago. Begs the question does academia elicit some form of higher standard or at least in the field we are discussing.

   You mention Giles but Giles had his views and opinions for a long time before current events although no doubt he jumped on the red phenomena as springboard to try and recruit more believers to what is after all a minority opinion in Thailand.

   By the way Thitinan may just be one of them shy boy academic types, which would explain the eye contact issue.

   Hot debate. What do you think? 8  6

7. Vichai N on June 5th, 2010 8:35 pm

   About GeGee’s concerns:

   My points (a) more powers/tax money to the provincial/local governments and (b) reallocation of tax money towards accelerating rural development, could be easily addressed now in any open public debate.

   My points (c) and (d) pertaining to constitutional rewrite and reconciliation map that addresses grievances and discontent do require an open and free debate that may touch on sensitive Thai issues. Thailand’s lèse majesté (LM) laws are serious impediments to any open debate about how to change the status quo.

   The question therefore really is how long before the Thai people dispenses away with its LM laws? I asked this question to StanG weeks ago and his response was it could take “a revolution.” Well Thailand just had a near-revolution from the discontented Reds and had they succeeded LM probably was on top of their get-rid-of list. Certainly NOT during HM King Bhumibol’s reign will anyone dare question LM.

   After the royal succession will open up possibilities of tackling LM and other sacred issues. The shadow of the yellow shirts intimidate of course; but their Suvarnabhumi and other shenanigans of past had seriously discredited PAD … so I think PAD will just be that – a shadow making lots of noises.

   It will take a really popular respected leader to tackle LM head on, and get Thailand’s parliament to have LM revised or repealed altogether. Maybe Abhisit … maybe but I don’t know.

   —————-

   To Occasional Poster on his concern about the feudal political lords in Thailand’s provinces. Yes, I agree with you that increasing the powers of the local politicians leads to more power to the political lords and their dynasties. That’s the price of more local autonomy and more democracy. The free-wheeling democracy of the Philippines and their hundreds of local powerful bosses is instructional. That’s democracy (both ugly and beautiful) if Thailand goes the same path.

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8. Steve on June 5th, 2010 11:15 pm

   “Yes, he is the most quoted Thai academic, but not in academic journals – he is quoted in foreign media.”

   Sure – just forget about all the columns in Bangkok Post, three books and a couple of dozen articles/chapters in academic journals:

   http://www.ids.polsci.chula.ac.th/Documents/CV%20Thitinan.pdf

   “Thitinan himself didn’t say much, most of it was the presenter paraphrasing him …”

   A basic primer (for those who evidently need one) on condensing a lengthy discussion/interview into a six-minute package … Key passages will be used complete and with the speaker in vision. Other sections will be summarised by the reporter and thereby also enable illustrative footage to be used under his voice. Using that footage under the interviewee’s own voice is a no-no – his words would be construed as commentary on the specific footage as if he had selected it.

   “… and there was nothing we haven’t heard from Thitinan before, his angle is well known and has been debated for years.”

   Well known to a general ASEAN audience?

   “Personally, I noticed Thitinan never raised his eyes to look either into the camera or at presenter’s face as if he had some form of autism or was ashamed of his own words.”

   Personally, I hope comment on this is superfluous.

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9. StanG on June 6th, 2010 1:31 am

   Vichai, on red shirts and LM – did you miss Chalerm, their candidate for the prime minister, blasting Kasit for even suggesting the country needs to talk about the role of the monarchy?

   “Vile and dangerous thought” Chalerm called it.

   Two extremes are present in that movement, united only by their thirst for power.

   Whichever one prevails should they ever get it, it won’t be pretty.

   Quality comment? 5  2

10. Vichai N on June 6th, 2010 9:33 am

    Yes I caught Chalerm on the televised debate.

    “Vile and dangerous thought” from the opposition party leader Chalerm, while party member Jatuporn ranted on angrily about Da Torpedo’s incarceration, both defending the Red cause.

    I know, you know … that both the ruling government and the opposition would rather repeal LM laws, because it gets in the way of any serious open parliamentary debate. Won’t happen during HMK Bhumibol’s reign definitely.

    Extremist movements with large followings, the yellow and the red shirts, threatened to polarize Thailand. But both had failed, and leaders of both yellow and red shirts are now facing very serious criminal charges. The rise of the Red and Yellow shirts was good in the sense it raised the urgency of the Thai people unifying on the middle ground to resist the demagoguery of extremism.

    The rising popularity of Abhisit reflects the Thai people’s choice of the middle ground.

    Quality comment. You agree? 10  2

11. BangkokDan on June 7th, 2010 4:44 pm

    For those who read Thai, here’s a more extensive Thitinan Matichon interview:

    http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1275799476&grpid=01&catid=

    BangkokDan

    Quality comment? 1  0

12. Chunkton on June 8th, 2010 6:20 pm

    StanG, why post articles from people that don’t follow the fascist line? They state well reasoned pieces seeking moderation and conciliation, then you attack them.

    As I have said before I see no good guys here, but sadly you do. What does Abhisit offer this country but more of the same crap that has seen ab Asian Tiger turn into a pussy cat. Not that Thaksin was any better, greed and nepotism decide outcomes, not good economics.

    Quality comment? 1  0

13. StanG on June 9th, 2010 8:45 am

    Chunkton:

    “StanG, why post articles from people that don’t follow the fascist line?”

    What?!?

    I was under the impression that people like you attack Abhisit for being a puppet of elites that actually made Thailand into an Asian Tiger.

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14. Vichai N on June 12th, 2010 9:16 am

    Is the military beginning to “call the shots” at how PM Abhisit’s government should be run? That seems to be the ominous opinion of Asia Times in the latests Shawn Crispin article “Abhisit’s Democratic Choice”:

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LF12Ae01.html

    Quote:

    “… that the Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations (CRES), which was formed to handle the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) protest group’s street protests, is morphing into a sort of “shadow government” to Abhisit’s democratically elected coalition.”

    I too am getting uneasy. Nobody believes the news they read or hear anymore. People no longer sense a threat from widespread red insurgency and accordingly PM Abhisit should start to de-fang CRES particularly in areas where the threat is very minimal and could be handled by the police.

    Let’s not allow the Thai military to get too much into our hair, OK?

    Quality comment. You agree? 7  0

15. Steve on June 12th, 2010 5:23 pm

    Good to see even Vichai N getting uneasy….. (take that in the positive spirit in which it’s meant). Given that the main uniformed stakeholders in CRES are the same ones that acted as at least midwives to the birth of the coalition, one questions whether Crispin’s “morphing” is in the correct tense.

    “Let’s not allow the Thai military to get too much into our hair, OK?”

    That also begs some questions: “How much is too much?,” “Is it already too much?” and – crucially – “Isn’t it the Thai military that does the “allowing”?.”

    Quality comment? 4  0

16. StanG on June 12th, 2010 11:37 pm

    Crispin is a good source to judge perceptions among diplomats, so far they appear to be firmly pro-Abhisit.

    Domestically, however, it appears the army and Prayuth need Abhisit more than he needs them.

    Abhisit managed to frame military’s role into “protect the monarchy and this government” boundary they can’t step out of publicly.

    I can’t see any better course of action on his part.

    Quality comment? 2  2

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