Why Farang Girls Hate Thailand

64 Responses to “Why Farang Girls Hate Thailand”

1. Farang Man Me Too on December 9th, 2008 11.26 am

   Hmph, seems the original author is lacking in foreign friends. All I see in networking events in this town is foreign men and their foreing wifes and girlfriends. Lots of those.

2. Jai Dee on December 9th, 2008 11.40 am

   Nicely written piece and very true. Western women in Bangkok quickly realize they are invisible to the opposite sex. The few foreign men I see with white-skinned wives and girlfriends look as though they are contemplating suicide.

3. whoopla on December 9th, 2008 1.59 pm

   The holidaymaking white couples do carry long misery-chops, the Indian and Middle Easterner versions look at the local poontang as just another variety of what they do anyway, maybe they can save some dinars – but my cliché breaking American travel-writer friend broke all common perceptions when he left his long standing Thai wife for a lovely Brit chic – go figure!

4. number&number on December 9th, 2008 4.10 pm

   East meets East: Have you asked a Japanese woman what she thinks of Thai women? OK let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and narrow it down to “available Thai women,” and the picture is actually a lot less pretty than the caucasian womans POV. Prostitution and lack of loyalty related morals in Thailand have given Thailand a global reputation as a family buster. I have had Thai girls try to pick me up right in front of my (tough and jealous) Thai girlfriend! They are bold and have earned their reputation. Having said that, I thank the Buddha that a few precious gems are still to be found.

5. Thailand: Safari World on December 9th, 2008 8.03 pm

   [...] Why Farang Girls Hate Thailand [...]

6. Carl Parkes on December 10th, 2008 6.02 am

   I’m going to send Mango Sauce another request to return. Believe it or not, my first appeal worked, so all is not lost.

7. BangkokDan on December 10th, 2008 7.53 am

   I share your enthusiasm Carl, but David’s blogging days seem to be over for good. Here’s his latest reply to my request to become active again:

   My days of commenting on farang life in Thailand are well and truly over.

   BangkokDan

8. chang dek on December 10th, 2008 2.19 pm

   Never mind Facebook addiction, I am still having the jones for Mango Sauce!

9. J on December 17th, 2008 5.59 am

   I see plenty of farang guys with their farang girlfriend or wife. One of my best friends originally brought me to Thailand. He spent two great years there with his hot, wonderful farang wife. I don’t think he was the least bit tempted as he was set, and still is very happy.

   I like Thai girls are much as the next guy, but if I had to choose for a true soulmate, I know I’d most likely find her from my own country.

10. john on December 20th, 2008 9.04 pm

    I was planning to make a slide show of some of the pit ponies. I mean farang girs that hang out in my local U.K boozer. But alass it would be too cruel. One of them smells of stale sweat yuk.

    Role on my retirement.

11. RainerH on December 21st, 2008 9.59 am

    … my farang girlfriend actively looked for a Thai lover and succeed finding one who made her so far suppressed fantasies come true. It might not happen often, but also white females are after some sex-adventures in Thailand. MY girl DOES NOT HATE Thailand!

    Rainer

12. Richard on December 24th, 2008 4.28 pm

    I don’t think farang girls hate Thailand at all. I see alot of farang girls and farang guys together. I think it is only really the Farang men who stay here for any length of time that have Thai girlfriends.I have lived here for 12 years and I have seen a few things in that time. I have had a couple of long term Thai girlfriends but it never really worked out in the end. That’s just crap about seeing Western women with their boyfriends looking unhappy. I’ve never met a Western guy in a serious relationship with a woman from his own culture contemplate leaving her for a Thai girl when here on holiday. A lot of Western girls may say farang girls hate Thailand cause they can only get laid in Thailand by Thai girls.

13. Richard on December 24th, 2008 5.00 pm

    I should have said farang GUYS may say farang girls hate Thailand cause they can only get laid in Thailand by Thai girls. Pretty much all the farang women I see here in Thailand all have smiles on the faces and seem to be having an absolute ball.

14. Catherine on December 24th, 2008 10.46 pm

    I’m a farang girl living in Thailand and I LOVE living here.

    Why?

    Because of the Thai and the expat community I run with.

    Educated. Talented. Positive. Interested in life and living. Not interested in partying 7/7.

    Yeah, I’m an expat gal … and loving it …

15. Rainer Hansen on December 26th, 2008 8.19 am

    … Richard is generally right, but there is one point my girlfriend is different: After some hesitation and confessing her desire to me, she went out to look out for a Thai MALE (not a Thai girl!) to date with. After only one night they spent together, I had to face a Thai competitor for my farang girl, who successfully took her over for the rest of our holidays. I am still together with my girl and she has become my fiance meanwhile. She loves Thailand and she wants to go again and will look for an occassion with a Thai guy. She does not regret her hot sex affair at all. She talks openly about it with me and after some emotional struggle I accepted her preferences.

    To go public with such an experience (… as a white male who’s girl was laid by a Thai gigolo) in order to find out if it happened to other farang couples the same way triggered mostly abusive replies. I suspect that either these cases happen but the farang males are too much humiliated that they do anything to cover it up and hide it, or, otherwise, it is a really very rare case.

    Rainer

16. Catherine on December 29th, 2008 9.29 pm

    “… as a white male who’s girl was laid by a Thai gigolo …”

    Care to leave contact details? His?

    {wink}

    Pood len!

    Guys on Thai/expat forums go on and on about the negatives of Western women.

    But have you SEEN a lot of the Western men cruising around Thailand?

    Come on you all. A fair number are gross, overweight slobs with aa attitude that elicits a gut shudder.

    And dunno about you, but they’d never find their way into my social life. No matter if in the West, or here, the east.

    Note: Wee how easy it is to generalize while painting with a negative brush? Hmmm?

    There are luscious Western men in Thailand. There are lovely Western women too. Each to their own as it really isn’t a contest.

17. Girlie (non farang) on January 5th, 2009 7.58 am

    Great response, Catherine.

    Methinks it’s a poor reflection on the men who are constantly complaining/hating of the Western women, and completely stereotyping them.

18. Catherine on January 7th, 2009 4.39 pm

    Girlie,

    I often wonder what the Thai people think of the complaining/hating coming from Western men. Do they think it’s the normal state of being in the West? All that cacca spewing out? I hope not …

19. whoopla on January 7th, 2009 6.27 pm

    Catherine, if you know Thais, you might see and hear a lot of complaining/hating coming from them also, quite normal state of being in Thailand. Nothing to be ashamed of, despite all the face.

20. bosunj on January 7th, 2009 7.13 pm

    My wife constantly asks me why Western women are so angry and why they act like men not like ladies. She’s still amazed by the portrayal of men as dolts who couldn’t possibly survive without a smarter stronger “better” woman telling them what to do in Western media.

21. Catherine on January 7th, 2009 7.23 pm

    I’m not an expert on Thais, but I do have a little experience. Nine years in education (university with majority Thai students, small classes), then four years here.

    And while they do complain (as we all do), I don’t know Thais with the deep hatred I’m talking about. Maybe I don’t go to the right places?

    Like other professional expats, I’ve lived in many countries. This is a first with such venom. It surprised me, as I’m sure it surprises many women living and visiting Thailand.

    In Thailand it’s not uncommon for expat women to catch looks of hatred from unknown expat males, to read the same on expat forums.

    In a way, even with the great guys here, it’s as if this country attracts a large percentage of a narrow type of male. Wounded and raw and wanting to lash out.

    Life is too short and WAY too fun to waste it spiraling down into a festering mess of negativity, so I leave them to it.

22. Girlie (non farang) on January 7th, 2009 8.49 pm

    *** Life is too short and WAY too fun to waste it spiraling down into a festering mess of negativity, so I leave them to it. ***

    Absolutely agree.

    If one keeps focusing on the negative, more of the same is bound to come.

    I think it’s prolly a case of once bitten, twice shy.

    On the narrow mindedness. For e.g. some people can have one bad incident with a person from another race, and from then onwards, become a racist towards that culture.

    If you have a bad experience, with a Western woman or even just another culture, don’t brand them all in the same category. Find someone else, and move on without hatred.

    Perth, Australia

23. Louise Stanley on January 10th, 2009 12.45 pm

    I’m a Western female expat with a Western male expat boyfriend. We are both very happy in Thailand and have made many Western female expat friends over the last 3 years who also love Thailand!

    The only thing I hate is the lack of clothes for size 10-12!!

    I have heard many different opinions about females choosing to live in Thailand, but I had no idea that Farang girls hate Thailand. I just dont see that.

24. Pom on February 23rd, 2009 12.54 am

    I just read your all comments and found these are so interesting … I’m Thai guy who love to know foreigner lady. I have a great job, am well-educated … Where can I find this lady?

25. Catherine on February 23rd, 2009 8.39 am

    Pom,

    This request comes up quite often from both expat and Thai males.

    (So much for expat women not being wanted

    ThaiVisa.com often posts the different areas to find expat women, so perhaps do a search through their forum?

26. Pom on February 23rd, 2009 10.24 am

    Really? Not so much for eapat women not being wanted? Why?

    I ran through ThaiVisa.com it but couldn’t reach upon your suggestion, could you please dig into detail?

    Thanks.

27. Catherine on February 23rd, 2009 12.00 pm

    They are (it was just a turn of phrase).

28. Jennifer on February 23rd, 2009 12.01 pm

    I am a 23-year-old “farang” girl living in Bangkok. I wouldn’t say that we hate Thailand, but most of us have probably had bad experiences here. I used to love it, but after being followed and stared at every day, I am not so happy about it anymore.

    It is not easy to be a foreign girl here. The Thai girls hate us because they think that we will steal their boyfriends. The men wants us, so they can brag to their friends.

    Foreign men do not make it easier for us either. Just because they can have young Thai girls, they suddenly think that they are god’s gift to women, and that they can have us too. Reality check, if you are ugly at home you are ugly here too!

29. Pom on February 23rd, 2009 1.48 pm

    Jennifer,

    Don’t take Thais for that granted, I won’t defend it since I’m not you but here are a lot of natives who are willing to be good to foreigners. With high hopitality and willing to help, I would say these virtues here are excessive.

    BUT, it depends on your location as well. If you hang around with Thais who aren’t so open-minded and negative thinking, plus especially can’t speak English well. Then it might be, I would say, some of the Thai people are afraid to talk with a farang and dare not to speak in English. This might be misleading sometimes.

    or the hate habit, I’ve been here for 25 years and can hardly find a farang girl who wants to steal a Thai guy. Most of girls date only with male expats, that’s the way I see it.

    How long have you been here?

30. Catherine on February 23rd, 2009 2.00 pm

    Pom,

    On ThaiVisa, put the below in their search …

    “where to meet expat women”

    And you’ll soon be rewarded …

31. Pom on February 23rd, 2009 11.40 pm

    Catherine,

    I can’t make it, there are so many forums but most of it has nothing but a chat.

32. BangkokDan on February 24th, 2009 4.31 pm

    Gals & guys:

    This is not a dating site, unfortunately.

    I had to, unfortunately, delete, and I’m sorry, a series of dating offers, mostly from men.

    Or maybe I should start a dating site …

    BangkokDan

33. Joe the Plumber on February 24th, 2009 6.00 pm

    No country for young white women indeed … Many of the comments above are true. Sure, there are many white couples here in Thailand, but the longer they stay here, the lower are the chances of the female part staying. An HR survey conducted by a large U.S. company revealed that out of ten Australian couples that moved to Bangkok, nine were divorced within a year. White women in Thailand often feel frustrated because they know that they cannot compete with the exotic locals. They realize that they are everyday’s bread to their companions, who are continuously tempted with tantalizing sweets. Once the white man has broken the ties of his white companion and the later has gone home, forget about him. He is not going to pursue any of the white women in Thailand. To make things worse for themselves, these white women tend to get fat, if they are not already, and then they really become an eyesore in the land of nice legs and short skirts … And well, let us not even mention the other nationalities like the massively fat, ugly and disgusting Indian or Arab women …

34. Jennifer on February 24th, 2009 7.07 pm

    Pom,

    I am aware that there are a lot of Thai people who are sincere and friendly towards foreigners, but that is not what we are discussing here is it? The discussion is about “Why Farang Girls Hate Thailand,” and that is what I am trying to answer.

    I have been living here for four years, and I am in a serious relationship with a national, so you can see that I am NOT generalizing ALL Thai people. What makes girls like me not like Thailand, is how people stare at us and make comments about us. Some people do not understand that we might understand what they are saying and that we get offended by it.

    I don’t think that foreign girls steal Thai guys, I was just saying that some Thai girls might think that we would. I don’t blame them, I know that they are used to having other Thai girls sleeping with their men. Too much cheating around here.

    It would be so much easier if all people, foreigners and natives, could stop pointing out differences, and instead accepting each other for who we are. I don’t care if my partner or friends are black, white or yellow.

35. bosunj on February 25th, 2009 2.34 am

    Jennifer wrote:

    What makes girls like me not like Thailand, is how people stare at us and make comments about us …

    Try being 196cm and 120kg with white hair! Stared at? Commented about? After four years one would think one would have learned to ignore it. Tango India Tango.

    I’m not commenting in a way intended to take the piss out of you! As you have made it past the 2.5yr mark you have earned my respect in that regard.

    Be well.

36. Pom on February 27th, 2009 2.22 pm

    Jennifer,

    Every time Thai people stare at you, there might have something special but not ordinary farang. You might be tall, short, chubby or even cute, beauty or ugly. If you looked general, I can’t see any point why local people need to notice on you … Of course they might think you are deaf to Thai, but that will occur to someone who has un-broad view. Ok Ok, I got your point now and hope you can pass that bad moment, on the other hand, you will know what people are thinking about you while they assume that you don’t.

37. not amazed on February 28th, 2009 12.42 pm

    120kgs!!! I’d stare too.

38. Kathy on July 1st, 2009 7.18 pm

    Hello,

    I have been to Thailand 3 times. I am a white, 44 year old female who has had only 3 serious relationships with men. The first one I married, the 2nd one couldn’t commit and the 3rd wanted to marry me but I could not marry him because I could not trust him. Guess what? #2 and #3 are both currently married to Thai women. #2 had to negotiate a “fee” in order to keep her. #3 spent every last cent he had in order to impress his wife and her family. She is now “happily”?? living in Northern Canada freezing, cannot speak the language and, I’m sure is very lonely missing her homeland and her family.

    While in Thailand (because I look after my body and I’m nice too) I had to deny advances from a few Western blokes. I think it’s the same philosphy that if the Thai girls will give you what you want so will we? I’m not sure. I think like very good thing, it wears off after a while. We all still want to love and be loved and appreciated for who we are.

    I believe that to compare 20 year old Thai girls to aging Western women is simply not fair. What do you guys think of the 40 to 50 year old thai girls? Are they still your lovely little sex slaves? I think not.

    Be fair, do what you want, but no need to slam women who have fought for equality for a long time and thank god they did because now it is somewhat easier for women in the West to leave abusive relationships and, hopefully, get on with their lives. Although, in my humble opinion, they still have a long way to go (enter the subservient Thai girls). How to rise above that? Have pity for the poor girls that actually have lain with many fat or old and ugly undesirable men who obviously have no social conscience and only seek to satisfy themselves and seek immediate gratification.

    I ask you, if you happen to have a Thai daughter, what would you want for her? Think about it …

    Men have to help out here if they want their daughters to be treated differently than they themselves treat women. Please,think about it …

39. bosunj on July 1st, 2009 8.14 pm

    Everything one needs to know about a Western woman lies in your statement:

    While in Thailand (because I look after my body and I’m nice too) I had to deny advances from a few Western blokes.

    More specifically: deny says it all.

    For western women sex is a weapon to use against those awful men.

    Ask my 50 yo HOT educated professional Thai girlfriend what she thinks about your ideas about subservient Thai women. Better yet, tell the 25 yo Thai woman working in one of the entertainment areas shes subservient. She’ll laugh in your face.

    Thai women are anything but subservient. It may be convenient for you to think of them as being that way because it relieves you of having to deal with your anger and hatred of Western men.

    Its not really your fault though is it?

40. yob on July 2nd, 2009 5.37 am

    I’m one of your partisans Kathy, but aren’t we all here to give each other what we want? No holding back, as in the U.S. female 2man relationship-ocide. Or the overt punishment that comes with that.

41. Missy on July 13th, 2009 3.21 am

    I’m a tall (6′), blonde, blue-eyed, white girl that lives in Thailand. I’m more into girls anyway, and I love it here. I’m in heaven…

42. EghBKK on July 16th, 2009 6.57 am

    It’s a bit suspect that Western men seem to be the primary contributors to topics like this. They find talking about this quite satisfying, considering most contributors have little vested interest in the topic (none of the posts are actually seeking understanding of why farang girls hate Thailand). If you’re with a Thai woman, why would you end up on this page anyway?

    That said, I’m a Western expat. Seeing Western guys with Asian girls is not special to Thailand (quite common on the US West Coast and elsewhere). What is special to Thailand is the Soi Cowboy, Pattaya scenes. Perhaps Western women just don’t like seeing such blatant exploitation of ANY woman.

    If I had to pinpoint what I dislike about the country it would be the abounding ineptitude and painstaking effort required to get even the smallest things done.

    How could anyone who’s actually assessing this topic question overlook all the other major nuisances of living in a “newly developed” country and boil it down to “farang women are jealous of Thai girls”? Come on, there’s more to it … if you’re even looking for an answer.

43. bosunj on July 16th, 2009 7.40 am

    If I had to pinpoint what I dislike about the country it would be the abounding ineptitude and painstaking effort required to get even the smallest things done.

    Try a little humility. Try not showing your frustration. Try making sure the Thai helping you feels respect. Try learning to speak Thai. Try not expecting that things are going to be like they were back in your country. Try being genuinely polite. Don’t just smile with your mouth.

    You’ll be amazed at how much easier it will be to get things done and how much better you’ll feel about the situation and yourself.

44. Jan van Vliet on August 2nd, 2009 6.17 pm

    Well, the best is, just to forget about farang or Thai girls and just to stick to the individual attractiviness with women in general.

45. Jennifer on August 3rd, 2009 10.31 am

    I totally agree with Jan. Why all this stereotyping. The fact is that Thai girls and Western girls aren’t that different, some of us just have to work a bit harder at getting what we want.

46. Kai on August 30th, 2009 7.51 am

    Hi all – I’m a 26 year-old farang woman about to move to Bangkok and I have to admit one of the things I’ve been feeling most nervous about is this perceived fear of Thais girls from a Western woman’s point of view when it comes to finding a man. It’s been really interesting reading all these posts and 3 questions/comments come to mind:

    1) Thai girls are quite popular amongst the male population, not because of a subservient nature, but actually because they are more fun-loving, very open about sex and more straight-forward (maybe aggressive?). My question is: do many Western girls get along with Thai girls? If a Thai girl has these qualities, aren’t those the qualities you would also look for in a friend?

    2) Cheating – this appears to me to be the main issue. How reliable is it to find a partner in Thailand (whether they go for Thai or farang?) Does availability & opportunity = distrust?

    3) Safety – while understandbly some males are looking for sexual fun/tourism and opportunities not commonly found in Western countries, can the same be said of nationals? Do you get the drunken attacks commonly found after-hours in western bars from nationals/expats?

    It’s a bit long but would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks!

47. Traditional on August 30th, 2009 11.43 am

    Johnny,

    It’s the man’s job to make the first move on a woman! Don’t you want to be the hunter?! Or do you want the women to be the hunter?!

    I never make the first move on a man, and I am not short on company. If a man is not interested in me, he is not interested. If I have to make the first move on him, then that says something that either he is not attracted to me, or he is too cowardly. Either way, why would I want him then.

    Yes, it IS the way us women have been brought up in our society, but why blame the women for being this way.

    Any man who has to wait for a female (that he is interestd in to make the first move) is a wimp.
    Come on guys, be men! Be the hunter! Don’t wimp out when it comes to pursuing women! Don’t send a woman to do a mans job, for gods sake!

    All this said very kindly and sweetly, even with all the exclamation marks! ))

48. Rupert on September 12th, 2009 2.35 pm

    Since I’ve been living in Thailand for 2 years, whenever I go back to the UK, I can’t even bring myself to look at British women. If I do so by mistake, I quickly turn away in disgust. Even the young ones look like repulsive monsters to me now. I have to keep asking myself, are these really females or some other sex? Because they don’t act in a feminine way and many of them barely look like women, compared to Thai women, who have restored my faith in the future of mankind. Reproduction will still go and the human race won’t die out, thank Buddha. And sex without reproduction can still be a delicious, life-affirming experience. Genes, diet, lifestyle, feminism and personality disorders have not been kind to British women. I’ll leave them to those British men not smart enough to head for Thailand, while I laugh all the way to the bank.

49. Nikki on October 8th, 2009 9.21 am

    My god guys, some of you don’t even seem to read or be open to what the farang girls have to say. Bosjun, you gotta be joking. Ruppert are you listening to yourself, laugh yourself to the bank, ain’t you lucky those girls come from a different world and fuck your fat ugly butt, treat you nice and make her do whatever you want (my boyfriend is in Pattaya now and I know more guys who ARE honest about it) and you have the guts to talk about Buddha? You get disgusted once you get back? The Thai girls are often disgusted by you guys (because, be honest, most of you complainers are the ugly frustrated, somehow women-hating guys because boohoo in your own country you get no attention whatsoever (world is prejudice) but as a fact, sweethearts, even those lovely Thai girls only smile and act nice to you because they need to live and for that accept that you pay less than nothing. I know some of those Thai girls and especially the most beautiful ones have at least 7 farang boyfriends (they don’t give a rat’s ass about you, exceptions always of course). I’ve been working in the biz for some time, farang girl, but in the West and as those men payed lots of money for me. I built up a steady clientele( all types of men, from around the world), so I can’t be that bad can I, for I don’t put them on a leeche. I actually enjoyed my work most of the time. Had good fun and sex, while for what I hear most of you guys suck in the bed, sorry. Questions for none-hating farang girls and the girls here, I’m going to Bankok soon, and I want to work there for a short while, I know there good places but maybe some help on the way? Thanks in advance.

    Oh and I like girls too so me and my boyfriend enjoy those things together as well. Don’t look at life through a tube, it’s to short.

50. HAKIM on January 12th, 2010 6.22 am

    Well, it’s all about being real and genuine, so Thai girls tend to be sincere and very loving compare to girls in the western world. As much as I hate to say this, Most girls in Asia do understand how to love a man compare to girls in western society. I have been to Thailand, and it’s so good to be with a Thai princess, cos she would make you feel special and respect you as man, whereas here in the so called first world, women have no respect for men. Only women from olden days have respect for their husbands, but the new generation is just a disgrace. So for most of foreign men in Thailand, we tend to be with thai girls, because we find solace and happiness within them. That’s why i plan to marry my thai princess and started a family. But never would you find me dating or dealing with a girl from the Western society, because been there and done that, all you get is the nagging and grumbling everyday. Thai Girls RULEZ!

    Once you fall in with an Asian girl, life becomes more interesting, because most would bring happiness into your life.

51. Alex on January 12th, 2010 10.21 am

    Hakim, please do not take me wrong, but you seem to know next to nothing about Thai girls, and you seem to be comparing apples with oranges. In the West, very much as well as here, you can find lovely girls that will take care of you as much as Thai girls will, provided that you choose them in the same category. For example, take Russia or Ukraine, get your self a farmer girl with no education and a dire need for money for her family, which you will provide: she will treat you like a king, the same as your Thai princess. You and most of foreigners visiting Thailand have never met real, day-to-day, Thai girls. All of you meet the scum in the bars and the streets, the farmers and uneducated girls from the northeast. Regular Thai girls, meaning those with an education and self-respect, are just the same as their counterparts in the West. They have dreams and ambitions that go far beyond rubbing some old and obese Western, Chinese or Middle Eastern man’s feet after feeding them dinner. Women are women, everywhere you go. Poor women behave the same in every country. Well-to-do women, with no need for your money, will treat you according to the way you treat them. Only poor disadvantaged women will “love” you in return for your infidelities and disrespect, provided that you keep giving her money. Do not compare love with business. Many guys that come to Thailand for a week or two filled with cheap sex and sun tend to confuse love and business. Those Thai girls working in the bars are very good at creating the confusion. Yeah, dude, Thai girls rule all right!

52. Rich on January 12th, 2010 11.57 am

    @Alex: Very insightful, this. And of course you are right. Women are the same everywhere, as are men. You can’t buck nature.

53. Alex on January 13th, 2010 8.13 am

    Thanks Rich, and by the way, Nikki is absolutely right. It may sound like a cliché, but a vast majority of the men one sees in the bars at Nana and Cowboy (Western venues) as well as Ratchada (Asian venues), I’d say 85%, are above 45 and overweight. I’d also say more than 70% of them are physically disgusting for their age. A large majority boast tattoos and other signs of low breed, and certainly a large majority are blue or even grey collar workers where they come from. Certainly very few of those would be able to attract a decent woman in their countries and none would ever be able to have a girl in her low 20s absent paying for it. Most of them cannot afford it in their countries so they make the run for Southeast Asia. With all of that, anyone who believes the girls that go with them feel anything other than repulsion has simply lost touch with reality. The only thing that moves the girls to do it is money, and mainly money for their families, which justifies the deed in their minds and allows them to keep a minimum of dignity. So, let us be honest with ourselves and face the reality as it is …

54. Rich on January 13th, 2010 10.44 am

    @Alex: Agree with most of that too, having been once to each place I quickly decided I would not be going back. Not my kind of places though I know they are popular.

    What comprises the other 15%?

55. Robin on January 13th, 2010 10.16 pm

    Alex said:

    “You and most of foreigners visiting Thailand have never met real, day-to-day, Thai girls. All of you meet the scum in the bars and the streets, the farmers and uneducated girls from the northeast.”

    Um, excuse me, but are you using the word “scum” to refer to the women who work in bars and in the street? What a horribly harsh, judgmental word. So much for sisterhood. It’s not those ladies’ fault that their government and other people in power have never invested beyond a token amount in education and training to make sure that fewer of Thailand’s female citizens would turn to the flesh trade to support their extended families.

    Frankly, my experience here has shown that I’d prefer to hang out with a lady from the Northeast instead of a hi-so ingenue from Bangkok any day — more likely the Isaan girl will have a better sense of humour and not take herself (or her clothing! or her iPhone! or her 16 designer handbags!) so damn seriously.

    But on the other hand, I agree with Alex and Rich that in general, people are the same everywhere, and some are wonderful and some are dreadful. Some Isaan women have hearts of gold, and some Bangkok women are frighteningly superficial. Some Bangkok bourgeois girls have lovely dispositions, and some Isaan girls take advantage of foreigners. There’s good and bad everywhere.

    So please, let’s not brand any of these women as “scum.”

56. Alex on January 14th, 2010 6.32 am

    I don’t know Robin, you seem to be idealizing these girls.I have heard the same comments from many people, who think of them as poor girls victims of society, blah, blah, blah. Yet, I have never heard any nice comments about black girls comming from the ghettos, high on drugs and selling themselves in the streets of many cities. Never I have heard someone saying “they are nice girls, they did not choose this life.” Why is that? Why do people mythify Thai prostitutes so much? Because they do not know them and they do not know Thailand. Sorry to burst your bubble Robin, but these sweet girls are just the same. Yes, they come from poor parts of the country, but they do not have to choose this life. They take this life simply because they can make much more money and because they are lazy. Actually, they are a minority. Most of those people coming from the Northeast (boys and girls) work in factories, construction or farms. But those lovely Isaan girls that you know, they see the other ones that went to Bangkok to work and are sending a lot of money and are having a lot of fun and they decide to eschew their moral values and go please the most disgusting men, justifying their actions on the fact that they are helping their families. For the families it is a big open secret. No family would accept their daughters going to Bangkok or Pattaya or Phuket to sell themselves, yet when the money starts to come there are no questions asked. Do they think the daughters became doctors all of a sudden? Do not be fooled by them. They all do it for money. They will play their nice smile for you and tell you all the sweet stories they know you want to hear, but the only goal is to make you give them your money. Hey, as long as you understand it for what it is, no problem and all happy, but please do not idealize these girls. They are greedy, lazy whores. Read my words Robin, and do not forget them: they are whores. Just like those in the streets of Europe or the US, exactly the same. Yes, more fun and more sweet maybe, and cheaper for sure, but all the same whores. Most of them, a large majority are into drugs. In fact, most of the club owners in Bangkok sell the drugs themselves to the girls. And they all want one thing desperately: your money.

57. Rich on January 14th, 2010 7.37 am

    @Alex:

    A tad harsh sir … I know some very nice girls from Isaan who had little real choice – do some unskilled work for pennies a month, or work in Pattaya. It is true that some like the lifestyle and consider it having a good time – they certainly like the money that coms with the lifestyle, and the hi-so baubles they can acquire to convince themselves that they’re somehow going up in the world. I know some ladies in each category (not professionally, but because I have spent time in the Isaan villages).

    But it would be wrong for me to say that they are all victims of a largely uncaring Bangkok or Pattaya culture that regards Isaan people as basically being Laotians and therefore not quite human. In the same way, even though many are indeed victims. But I don’t believe your generalization is right either.

    Many of the girls are not at all proud of themselves but really have few choices. Many others stay there because of the ‘exciting’ lifestyle. Sadly.

58. Alex on January 14th, 2010 10.14 am

    Rich, I agree, generalizations are often unfair. But I still disagree with the concept that “they do it because they have no other choice.” That is by large, false. There is no real shortage of work for those who want to do it. There is a lot of construction going on in Thailand, and although industry suffered a hit, there are plenty of factory jobs. That is not to say that these are easy jobs, and I am the first one to agree that it is easier said than done. But I have met girls who work in factories or other blue-collar jobs, for meager salaries that have them toll for hours on end, and some of them are pretty enough to work at a bar or a massage parlor, yet they will not do it. So, you have to think about why. Those who are able to break with the moral constraints, aided no doubt by the vision of their neighbours floating on riches, are not to be idealized.

    Yes, harsh, I know and I agree, but how many of those people that idealize Thai whores would have any nice words to say about their western counterparts, or even worse the aids-ridden prostitutes in Africa? (people seem to forget that Aids in Thailand is rampant) Those people come to Thailand and because the whole thing is setup like Disneyland they feel that it is different here. It is not. The girls working in the bars in Thailand generally despise the patrons. They have tender names for all of us in Thai, believe me. They are very good at smiling and pretending. They have been taught to do that. They are no different than the other ones. So, if we are prepared to idealize prostitues in Thailand, we should to the same with the rest. That is where the real test lies: would those guys be willing to talk so benevolently about the prostitutes in the West? Funny, but I have never ever heard such nice talk about Russian prostitutes or escorts in Los Angeles.

    I guess people need to justify their actions, and they feel better about themselves thinking that they are helping the poor girls from Isaan than accepting that they are paying a vulgar whore for sex. Sadly, that is exactly what it is. After the girl drops them at the airport, she goes on to her next assignment. And there is nothing wrong with that. I fully condone mongers: some have no other choice to have sex, some have no time, and some just want to enjoy the moment with no complications. No problem at all.

    To me, the girls deserve neither respect nor compassion. They are not victims of human trade (those are a different thing). They do it willingly and in the presence of choice. That does not mean that they are to be disrespected either, but let us put things where they belong … There is not need to “love thy neighbor.” Let us just call things what they are and then everyone is happy.

    (Oh, the other 15% are just regular guys that would have no problem meeting girls in normal venues, but that for one reason or another, choose to pay for play)

59. anonymous on January 14th, 2010 12.53 pm

    I love the company of farang girls here in Thailand. They are the only one who do not look at me as if I where a walking ATM machine.

60. whoopla on January 15th, 2010 7.15 am

    I love the company of the best prostitutes in Thailand. They are the true ambassadors to Thailand. They should be in the Guiness Book of Records as the Best Companions in the World. Alex can go eat crow.

61. Marcus on February 8th, 2010 12.16 pm

    I get tired of all the gross generalizations about both Thai women and Farang women all over the interent. I don’t see much animosity at all towards Thai women by Farang women. I get some nasty looks and even a few comments from Farang women when I’m with my Thai girlfriend, but I also have many pleasant and flirtateous encounters. My girlfriend jokes that Thai men are more interested in farang women than Thai women. I don’t understand treating working girls as lower class people, whether they are Thai or Farang. I think that is a projection of your own misguided morals. Having been in long term relationships with both Thai and farang sex workers as well as extremely well educated and successful by societal standards farang women I can pretty much say follow your heart and stop over analyzing this stuff. And If you think bar girls aren’t selective about who they go with, maybe you haven’t bothered to get to know them. The big, ugly fat guys don’t appeal to most of them either, just like big, ugly fat women don’t appeal to me. In any relationship you pay for sex, one way or another, wake up!

62. Alex on February 8th, 2010 1.44 pm

    Marcus says “In any relationship you pay for sex, one way or another.” This is a stereotype, and a very misogynist one, by the way, especially at a time in which, for good or bad, women are strongly declaring their independence. While it can still be said for many situations, the truth is that it does not have to be. The problem is that the matching gets a little more difficult once you take the money factor out, and guys (and increasingly women) are left to fend by themselves on their other attributes. Marcus has to wonder why a girl becomes a working girl. It generally is because she either has no education whatsoever (in which case it is very difficult to establish a real relationship unless the male also belongs to that class category) or she is too lazy and money hungry to have a normal job (in which case the male has to keep feeding the meter for the relationship to continue). Marcus boasts about his relationships with working girls. One has to wonder in which of the two categories above his relationships fit, but in any case you will have seen that these can never be successful. Most bar girls have Thai boyfriends. They give their money to them (the money their farang boyfriends give them) and the Thai boyfriends spend it in booze and other girls. Farangs are often amazed at this, but the answer is very clear: these girls need to relate to someone in their sphere, and although there are plenty of blue collar (or no-collar) farangs that could fit the bill, other factors such as age, language and culture still weigh against the farang. Relationships are seldom sucessful or real where the two partners belong in two different “worlds.” As a general piece of advice to Marcus and others, it is a bad idea to hang out with working girls. “Working” girls (the terms says it all) are there to work. Remember, you cannot take Mickey Mouse out of Disneyland. He will still be there the next time you come …

63. marcus on February 9th, 2010 3.41 am

    Alex, I’m not sure if you are a man or a woman, very androgynous name, but I happen to love women, not hate them as the term misogynist implies. I treat women with respect, no matter the culture or what they do for a living. if anyone here dislikes women it’s you as you have nothing but total contempt for women who work in the sex trade. No need to boast here, you don’t know me, nothing to be gained by it. I am merely relating my experiences both here in the East and in the West, I believe that is the purpose of this forum, to discuss if farang women hate Thailand. The vast majority of women the world over who are in the sex trade are there to pay the bills, some have been forced into it, which is truly awful and some choose to stay in it when other choices present themselves. You are obviously approaching this issue from a moralistic point of view, which means you have decided the outcome before you entered the dialog. It’s no different than trying to discuss religion with someone who is certain they are right and everyone else is wrong, it’s a waste of energy. The very simple point I was making was that there is no difference between having a realtionship with an ex-sex worker and someone who was never in the trade. You can find gems or people with serious problems in either world. The majority of single women who were in the western US during its early settling were prostitutes who went on to marry customers and start families, the same in Australia. When economic developement provides more options, fewer women choose this path. It would be interesting to see the real numbers on this comparing Thailand 30 years ago to today. 20 years ago in Thailand it was very common to see people who had mutilated a limb so they could beg on the streets, not so common today. When you are a young woman who lives in a society like Thailand that places shame on divorce, and you have children, with no boyfriend or husband to help support you, no skills or education, your options are limited. No need to reply, as I said before I’m tired of all of the trash talk about bargirls and women from Isaan on the net, the first is moralistic claptrap at best and the second is racist at worst, since there is almost always a reference to dark skinned farm girls of low education. Just chill out about this stuff and enjoy this very short life of ours.

64. Alex on February 9th, 2010 10.44 am

    Marcus, you say that these comments are off-topic and that there is no need to reply, but still post and reply yourself. There is no moralistic tone in my comments, they simply reflect my impressions after living in a few of these countries for a while and are meant to offer advise to many who come to Thailand and end up with the distorted vision of reality that certain parts of Thailand market. I respect your opinion and preferences, but I disagree on the principles you enunciate as their outcome. Your comment that “In any relationship you pay for sex, one way or another” refers to women and is either misogynist or misinformed. Yes, it is insulting to women to make that kind of generalization, because there is a large majority of women (granted, more in the affluent societies than in the disadvantaged ones) that do not consider money as a factor in a relationship and who feel offended when the macho man asserts that women are all in it for money, as if women cannot make their own money, which is completely incorrect. On the matter of who anyone chooses to be their partner, it is a personal choice, but once you start defending the virtues of prostitutes you step into the realm of opinions, and that is the subject of the discussion. The main subject of this thread is misguided and created by someone with a lot of insecurities. None of the farang women I have met hate Thailand, mainly because very few of them expose themselves to the lowest of the society here. Farang women here tend to be educated and tend to socialize with educated people, not with slobbering, uneducated, overweight, tattoo-ridden and socially incompetent misplaced foreigners who only know Thailand for what the red light districts have to offer, so most of those women express no particular views on Thailand. Apart from the red light districts, I have not observed a clear preference in normal foreigners for Asian women as partners. That said, it is true that many of these foreigners use the services that the nationals working in the red light districts offer, but as I said, they do it intelligently. Only those with very few options left end up having relationships with the sex workers. The same that ended up having relationships with prostitutes in the Wild West or in that pit that formed the basis for Australian society. I respect the fact that you take pity on hookers. After all, this is not a forum for personal attacks but for the presentation of ideas and their discussion. Many people do charity in their own personal ways. Finally, any and all of my comments refer to prostitutes that enter into the profession freely and do not refer whatsoever to those that are trafficked. That is one of the saddest sins in our world that deserves a completely separate discussion. But insofar as we are referring to Thai girls from the province who choose to work in a bar instead of a factory or restaurant or construction site, well, I do not think that anyone should refer to them by anything other than what they are…

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